Samsung LE40F86BD Review

[bandit]

Well I received my f86 yesterday and have to say so far am very happy with it.All the inputs look good now and thank goodness samsung has managed to fix the rgb input which on the m86 was just awful (had scrolling lines and terrible interferance), didn't see the problems you mentioned on the component so may be an issue on the set??

interesting, Vincent are you able to clarify what you meant? it means theres hope for me yet with this TV.

also you have not commented on the viewing angle even though you have reported a pretty poor 90 degree. whats your view on this please as thats worse then the m87

[Thrakier]

I'm also interessted in the viewing angle because the M viewing angle is not very good...

[Mythos]

I'm also interessted in the viewing angle because the M viewing angle is not very good...

Yeah, particulary the vertical in case of a wall mounted device.

[Vowani]

Great review Vincent!

Any idea if you will be able to get a Samsung F9 series for a comparative test with the F8 series?

The F9 does not have the 100 Hz which the F8 has (but you indicated it was not especially good anyway), but it does have locally-dimmable LED backlighting, probably one of the first sets to have this technology. How much better than the F8's CCL backlight is this going to be?

[Vincent]

...
How does this LCD compare to the Tosh? I've pretty much decided to abandon LCD for good and get a Panny plasma (probably TH42PX70) as I was under the impression that LCD at these sorts of screen sizes simply wasn't up to the job. From your review I'm thinking perhaps things aren't as clear cut as that and that perhaps the Samsung panels are a lot better than the one on the Tosh. I know you've reviewed both so are well qualified to comment so would you say that if I found the Tosh PQ to be poor then I'll probably find the PQ of the Samsung to be poor as well? I just want a clean picture on HD, if I'm watching BBCHD I don't want it to appear like I'm watching it through a mesh gauze but through a nice clean window! I guess the crux of it is, how overall does this compare with something like the Panny TH42PX70? I'll be using SkyHD and an Xbox 360 elite with HD-DVD drive and also a PS3 (when some decent games come out for it!). Would the lower resolution of the Panny lose a significant amount of detail compared to this Samsung? How do they compare with SD material? Any advice would be much appreciated

Oh and as much as I appreciate you taking the time to post the videos I'm not sure they really conveyed what you were trying to get across, I watched them and couldn't really see anything out of the ordinary to be honest, but perhaps that's cos I don't know what I'm looking for

Oh and in case it helps, I can get the Panny 37PX70 for about £700, the 42PX70 for about £780 therefore this will cost significantly more than either of those, would the extra £300 be worth it?

The Tosh X3030D actually has better scaling and deinterlacing than the F86, so it's unlikely that SD on the latter would be much better. If SD is important to you, you may be better off with a lower resolution plasma like TH42PX70 than a full HD 1920x1080 LCD panel.

In terms of noise reduction (including HD material), Sony (best) > Samsung > Toshiba (worst).

Whether you should go for 37" or 42" depends on your source and sitting distance, have you read http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/Article/How-Far-Should-I-Sit.php ?

I noticed from your pics that there seems to be much more separation of the PSU from the SCARTs on the F86 based upon the moulding of the back of the unit.  Would you say this was a fair observation?  Also, before the TV is returned to Samsung, would you be able to please test whether this interference is present using a SCART enabled device?

Coming back to the points made in the review I noticed when talking about the handling of 1080p24 material you stated it was "Noticeably smoother" and that you observed a "reduction in judder".

I'm hoping for the day I see a review talking about no judder on 1080p24 material rather than a reduction. Perhaps my expectations are unrealistic at this stage (or price bracket) with current technology?

Just to clarify this point though, as I'm fairly new to the world of LCD, on Blu-Ray do you still see judders from the edges of large objects such as buildings etc on panning shots?  If so, you describe this as reduced, is it reduced enough to be classed as on of the best LCD's currently out there at handling this material (irrespective of the price)?

Thanks in advance for your reply.

Your observations regarding the PSU shielding/ Scart are logical. Unfortunately – believe it or not – I do not own any Scart device, but a couple of owners have reported no Scart interference.

24p material will always have an inherent judder that contributes towards the dreamlike temporal quality you see in movies. Due to conditioning over the years we have trained ourselves to tune it out, but on a much larger screen you may start noticing it. When I said judder was reduced, I meant that there was no telecine (3:2 pulldown) judder or other undue frame rate conversion (FRC) judder, both of which are more obvious and annoying than 24p judder.

I haven't tested the Z3030D or X3000/ X3500... all I can say is that in handling 1080p/24 from the PS3, the F86 compares well to the Pioneer Kuro 508XD plasma.

... once thing i noticed and would affect me was a throwaway comment you made regarding the component input. you stated there was some interference or shimmer? was this on particular settings or a constant interference?
i have a Wii and its connected via component, so constant shimmer might rule this tv out completely.

you also mentioned that the cms options were poor, but colours ended up looking good. are they better then the M8 series review you did where you said skin tones were not so good?

Thanks again for the review. are you planning on selling on the TV, or was it a review model from samsung?

Also, as mentioned your calibrated settings (or instructions on how to get to them) would be amazingly helpful!

That was a full bandwidth per-pixel torture test which indicated some throttling over component, but in the real world it is very unlikely that you would ever see these noise/ shimmer because such high bandwidth is not required. To be on the safe side though, I recommend using the HDMI connections which gave a clean and stable pattern.

Colours on the 40F86 had more accurate hues but were less saturated than those on the 40M86. Skin tones look better as a result.

It was a review model from Samsung.

I'm also interessted in the viewing angle because the M viewing angle is not very good...

Sorry to disappoint, but it's about the same as on the M8. After all they both employ SPVA and Super Clear Panel.

Any idea if you will be able to get a Samsung F9 series for a comparative test with the F8 series?

The F9 does not have the 100 Hz which the F8 has (but you indicated it was not especially good anyway), but it does have locally-dimmable LED backlighting, probably one of the first sets to have this technology. How much better than the F8's CCL backlight is this going to be?

I'll try.

[Thrakier]

Is it true that the Samsung F has only a 8-bit Panel, but the M86 has 10bit? So M86 would be capable of showing much more different color-tones?

[KeanosMagicHat]

@vincent - thank you very much for the swift reply.

[zAndy1]

Ditto, thanks for the reply Vincent

[Ryan]

how much is this set to cost? a couple of hundred more than the le40m87bd? its a conundrum wether or not to wait and save more to get this one; i agree totally with you vincent about not using 100hz motion plus if it creates artifacts and makes films look odd, so is it really worth getting this over the m87? considering also i have read on forums that m87s with recent firmware dont have the freeview stutter problem, too. so all im left with is marginally better blacks and if thats the difference in a few hundred quid id probably be inclined to stick and buy the m87. do you really think the f86 is worth it?

cheers for the great review vincent

[Thrakier]

The M Series has still a lot of problems. The "pillar"-effect caused by the bad viewing angle, problem with colours, you will often have problems with green instead of grey and some other minor problems. The problem with the colors alone is imo worth to wait if the F hasn't these problems, because it REALLY looks strange when, for example, a face is completly green instead grey/dark color (because of shadows). I'm returning my set because of this fault.

The only thing that puzzles me is this 8bit/10bit thing and that the M seems to be superior because of the 10bit Panel. I had TVs with an 8bit Panel and you could see that there weren't enough colours and this results in an effect called "solarisation" (like when you change your colors on your PC to 256colors or 16bit). But after all I don't know exactly if this 8bit/10bit thing really has something to do with solarisation.

[Sharp Shard]

Hi Vincent,

I read the review with trepidation and have to admit that the mention of a reference set in the Pio 508XD has swayed me over to looking at the Pio 428XD as a final challenger to the Samsung.

I am still in two minds about what to buy and would like your opinion on which is the better set. I know it's a slightly odd question beings as it's two different technologies at two different price-points, but, in your opinion is the extra cost of the Pioneer justified over this Samsung?

Here is what I will be using the set for (quoted verbatim from the AVforums):

When I do get a panel it will be used in this order of priority: Gaming, Footy, Movies and PC. Will this set suffer burn-in or image retention if I am extensive with both the gaming and footy (both have stationary images for concerted periods of time)


Thanks for your time. I have 19 days left to choose a panel and it is between this and the F86 Samsung LCD. this is a fair bit more and I will be sacrifcing dual purchase of a ps3 to get it should I go down this route - is the leap in quality so great that it is worth such a sacrifice?

Cheers,

SS


--


Looking forward to your reply. I don't want to regret my choice after making it, and if the Pio is that much of a leap over this technology, I will go for that.

What say you?

Thanks.

SS

[bandit]

vincent,

thanks for the responses, i have copied them to the avforums, where your review has been followed with interest 

[Thrakier]

The only thing that puzzles me is this 8bit/10bit thing and that the M seems to be superior because of the 10bit Panel. I had TVs with an 8bit Panel and you could see that there weren't enough colours and this results in an effect called "solarisation" (like when you change your colors on your PC to 256colors or 16bit). But after all I don't know exactly if this 8bit/10bit thing really has something to do with solarisation.

Vincent, could you please comment on this? Thanks! This is the only thing keeping from buying a Samsung F.

[aneil]

Great review, I am torn between the Pioneer PXD (ref level test) and the new Sammy. I usually watch SD through sky but looking to go the full hog to HD. Mainly watch movies/sports/US series such as Entourage, Lost, Heros etc. Not sure how the Pioneer handles SD and also it is not 1080p (altho accepts this signal). Answers on a postcard.

[KeanosMagicHat]

also i have read on forums that m87s with recent firmware dont have the freeview stutter problem

I'm not sure where you read that Ryan but it isn't true I'm afraid.  There are two remaining faults with a number of new M86/M87's, Freeview Judder / Stutter and SCART interference.

There is no official fix from Samsung UK for either of these at this time.

@ Vincent - in a follow on from my previous questions, will you be publishing the settings for your F86 as tested please?  I remember this being of great assistance with the M87.