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Plainbows on Pioneer 428XD - question to HDTVTest staff

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Offline Anjou

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Plainbows on Pioneer 428XD - question to HDTVTest staff
« on: 05 August 2007, 10:34:19 AM »

Question to HDTVTest staff (and all knowledgable owners!)

I'm very impressed with my 428XD but am suffering from 'plainbows' on whites, which seem to be very bright even though brightness is set at 0 and contrast at 24. It's rainbow coloured flashes mainly on darker scenes with white in them - a short collar, a flurescent lamp, daylight from a window, even a paper - and is very disturbing. I've only had my TV for about a week and am living in hope that it's because the phosphors are too bright at the moment and that the white will calm down and the plainbows will go (a friend seems to recall them on his 436XDE) but any help with this would be much appreciated!

I see it mostly on Freeview - although, to be honest, that's what I've watched most at the moment, and use gamma 3 and colour space 2. I've tried using the power save modes to drop brightness but it doesn't really help and I'm just trying gamma 1 this morning as it seems slightly darker.

This is my first plasma but I've watched them before and never noticed this.

Help!

 

Offline Vincent

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Re: Plainbows on Pioneer 428XD - question to HDTVTest staff
« Reply #1 on: 06 August 2007, 01:36:27 AM »
Hi Anjou

Some people are more sensitive to plasma phosphor trails... you may be one of them. These trails should reduce through normal use once the phosphors stabilise. Have a look at an article I wrote - http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/2007/04/01/plasma-phosphor-trail/ - for some tips and explanation.

Warmest regards
Vincent

Offline Anjou

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Re: Plainbows on Pioneer 428XD - question to HDTVTest staff
« Reply #2 on: 06 August 2007, 09:52:01 AM »
I will, thanks.

I really hope it does disappear as everything else on this TV is fantastic!


Offline Anjou

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Re: Plainbows on Pioneer 428XD - question to HDTVTest staff
« Reply #3 on: 07 August 2007, 10:25:19 AM »
Just out of interest, though, has anyone done any research to see if wearing glasses or contacts increases the chance of seeing plainbows?

Offline Andreas

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Re: Plainbows on Pioneer 428XD - question to HDTVTest staff
« Reply #4 on: 08 August 2007, 02:33:08 PM »
Hi Anjou,

I'm getting a 428XD on the 18th of this month. I wear screen-glasses at work when using my computer. In the store I bought my pio from, I also noticed (if only very slight) plainbow effects. When I get the Display, I'll try watching it using my glasses and let you know if there is any noticeable change to this effect.

Kind regards,

Andreas

Offline Anjou

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Re: Plainbows on Pioneer 428XD - question to HDTVTest staff
« Reply #5 on: 08 August 2007, 02:45:54 PM »
Thanks. I wear contacts and glasses (though not at the same time  :) ).

Offline teddy

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Re: Plainbows on Pioneer 428XD - question to HDTVTest staff
« Reply #6 on: 19 August 2007, 01:28:59 PM »
I have finally narrowed my search to getting either the pio 428xd or the panny 42px70.  Can't decide whether the extra 700 for the pio is worth it. 

Any suggestions?

Offline Andreas

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Re: Plainbows on Pioneer 428XD - question to HDTVTest staff
« Reply #7 on: 21 August 2007, 07:33:23 AM »
Quote
Question to HDTVTest staff (and all knowledgable owners!)

I'm very impressed with my 428XD but am suffering from 'plainbows' on whites, which seem to be very bright even though brightness is set at 0 and contrast at 24. It's rainbow coloured flashes mainly on darker scenes with white in them - a short collar, a flurescent lamp, daylight from a window, even a paper - and is very disturbing. I've only had my TV for about a week and am living in hope that it's because the phosphors are too bright at the moment and that the white will calm down and the plainbows will go (a friend seems to recall them on his 436XDE) but any help with this would be much appreciated!

I see it mostly on Freeview - although, to be honest, that's what I've watched most at the moment, and use gamma 3 and colour space 2. I've tried using the power save modes to drop brightness but it doesn't really help and I'm just trying gamma 1 this morning as it seems slightly darker.

This is my first plasma but I've watched them before and never noticed this.

Help!

Hi again Anjou,

So, first off, I do see plainbows aswell on my 428XD, mainly on high contrast transitions that are in (fast) motion in the picture a rainbow effect seems to appear on the white part, although it's minimal. I do not see it when the image is static. Wearing my screen reading glasses does not seem to alter the perception of the trails in any way for me. What is striking me when watching SD content on the display, being used to watching LCD, the image on the plasma seems to be blurry and facial detail is crawling slowly when the person on screen move their face slowly. Can this be improved by altering the settings? I have changed some of the values in the picture and pro adjust menu and it did slightly improve, but I am sure this display can do better. Also a white logo on a slightly less bright backdrop seems to give the display a lot of trouble. The shape of the logo is then getting a torn look around the edges, which really tends to catch your eye...Anyone with similar experiences? (And if possible, solutions?) XBOX 360 HD (720p) game content looks very, very nice in case anyone was wondering.

Thanks,

Andreas
« Last Edit: 21 August 2007, 07:36:03 AM by Andreas »

Offline Anjou

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Re: Plainbows on Pioneer 428XD - question to HDTVTest staff
« Reply #8 on: 21 August 2007, 09:21:58 AM »
Yep, I see the rainbows on movement when white is next to a dark colour (ie high contrasting), or when maybe a white subtitle appears on a black background. It's only for a split second, but it's annoying. Interestingly, mine appear to have changed slightly - they started as thin rainbows, then went though being mostly yellow and blue, and now they are multi-coloured again but seem to be a bit wider than before. Perhaps this means the screen phosphor is changing and eventually after a few months use they will settle down.

As for the blurring, plasma does look softer than LCD but it's percieved sharpness - there is no less detail. Plasma has a more natural look, like CRT. However, it's easy to get drawn into the seemingly pin-sharp pics on LCD, especially for games, but LCD tends to show the flaws in low bitrate video much more because of this. I used to have a Sony Bravia 32V2000U which is a great TV but not a patch on the 428XD.

The crawling you are seeing is noise due to the pulse wave modulation used to make the phosphors work. It's the same with all Pioneers and all plasmas - I think Panasonic manages to surpress it mainly until you hit a certain contrast/brightness level. Switching on the 3DNR might lessen the effect but it general it settles down and shouldn't be a problem from a normal viewing distance.

All this is, of course, just my opinion.
 

Offline Achtung

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Re: Plainbows on Pioneer 428XD - question to HDTVTest staff
« Reply #9 on: 26 September 2007, 08:22:36 AM »
Hi Vincent,
Really with the passage of time does it get down this effect? I suffer it now and it is very troublesome. I suffer it more on DVD's than tv. In tv is practically invaluable for my. I see it in all the plasmas, even in the malls...
I have to decide between Pioneer or Samsung lcd...and I preffer the quality of plasma but I do not want to suffer it always  :'(

Thanks from Barcelona ;)

Offline Anjou

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Re: Plainbows on Pioneer 428XD - question to HDTVTest staff
« Reply #10 on: 26 September 2007, 09:28:58 AM »
I fear some of us are cursed! I went to a party the other day in a bar that had plasma screens on the wall. They were showing some very high-contrast images (pics of black PCs and DVD players on a pure white background) and the yellow and blue flashes were driving me crazy. They were even worse than the Pioneer (the screen was a Medion one and it looked quite nice apart from that!).

I've actually got a Pioneer engineer booked to come over next tuesday to see if he can see them and maybe to swap over my screen, but given that I saw them on the Medion sets I think the problem is with my eyes. I'm in the same position as you Achtung - the pioneer gives the best picture and about 80% of the time I don't see the flashes but on 20% of material, especially late evening programmes like dramas, I get hit big time because the lighting in the room is lower (so your pupil opens up more). Unfortunately, even switching on all the lights in my living room doesn't help - it's got to be natural daylight.

Offline preludecrazy

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Re: Plainbows on Pioneer 428XD - question to HDTVTest staff
« Reply #11 on: 04 January 2008, 10:37:07 PM »
Hi.  I'm looking at purchasing a new flat screen TV 37"-42", and the PDP-428XD is at the top of my shortlist at the moment.  However, this 'plainbow' effect is concerning me somewhat.  For those of you that have experience plainbows, has it settled down over the months you've now had it, or is it still the same?


Thanks.

Offline Anjou

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Re: Plainbows on Pioneer 428XD - question to HDTVTest staff
« Reply #12 on: 05 January 2008, 02:59:10 PM »
Well, it's changed from a few proper rainbow-coloured flashes here and there into blue and yellow strips - both vertical and, occasionally, horizontal - but the problem is still there after about 5-6 months. The big culprit is bright white on a dark background either moving or still, or areas with shades of grey. That said, my wife and friends can't see them at all so it's definitely something to do with my eyes and the way light from the screen phosphors comes into them. I've noticed them on other makes of plasma in shops and even seen one or two - or thought I did, they were so quick - on my old CRT now. I wear contacts or glasses and this may have something to do with it as if I take them out I don't see rainbows - but, sadly, I don't see much else on the screen either! :-)  However, I have never seen one on an LCD.

The best thing to do is to go and watch a 428XD in a shop for about 10 minutes. If you don't see any then you should be ok. As for the TV itself, well, even though I get these I'm still keeping it - that's how good it is, especially with something like the PS3 or Xbox 360.

Chris.

« Last Edit: 05 January 2008, 03:02:32 PM by Anjou »

Offline Ajay R

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Re: Plainbows on Pioneer 428XD - question to HDTVTest staff
« Reply #13 on: 21 May 2008, 08:45:01 PM »
I wear contacts or glasses and this may have something to do with it as if I take them out I don't see rainbows
Hi, Anjou. I think that you've hit the nail on the head there: I used to wear contacts and saw plainbows on my old CRT and on my friends' LCDs and plasmas. Since having laser surgery on my eyes, the problem has evaporated. As Vincent said in his initial reply, it's just one of those things that some people' are more susceptible to noticing, sadly.