Author Topic:

Samsung LE40M86BD Review

 (Read 90058 times)

Offline lia01reg

  • Out Of The Box
  • *
  • Thank You
  • -Gave: 0
  • -Received: 0
  • Posts: 9
    • View Profile
Re: Samsung LE40M86BD
« Reply #60 on: 16 April 2007, 07:38:38 PM »


Another blow for me is that I cannot get 1080p through my Xbox 360 on VGA. This is a huge knock for me. I have the HD DVD drive and was looking forward to the beauty of that and having DVDs upscaled too. A US forum suggests you can connect component, activate the 1080 res, reset the xbox and connect the VGA and all will be fine but I haven't been able to confirm this as I don't have access to a component lead. The 1080 display was the clincher for me in choosing to buy this set.



Xbox 360 is a total joke. I thought this TV was the answer to all of my problems...I received a mail today from Samsung saying:

"The required connection cable to operate 1080P is HDMI cable and the resolution will not be supported be VGA or component."

I read the manual (http://downloadcenter.samsung.com/content/UM/200703/20070331094815531_BN68-01186A-01L01-0313.pdf) and it says:

"Connecting Component Devices (DTV/DVD)
-------------------------------------------

- Connect component video cables (optional) to component connector ("PR", "PB", "Y") on the rear of
your set and the other ends to corresponding component video out connectors on the DTV or DVD.
- If you wish to connect both the Set-Top Box and DTV (or DVD), you should connect the Set-Top Box
to the DTV (or DVD) and connect the DTV (or DVD) to component connector ("PR", "PB", "Y") on your
set.
- The PR, PB and Y connectors on your component devices (DTV or DVD) are sometimes labeled Y,
B-Y and R-Y or Y, Cb and Cr.
- Connect RCA audio cables (optional) to "R - AUDIO - L" on the rear of your set and the other ends
to corresponding audio out connectors on the DTV or DVD.
- This LCD TV displays its optimum picture resolution in 1080p mode.
- This LCD TV displays its maximum picture resolution in 1080p mode.
"

It also shows a diagram showing that 1080p is clearly supported via component.

I'm going to mail them back.

Are there no TVs on the market that show 1080p via component or VGA?

Cheers,

Raj


Offline Thrakier

  • [Dynamic] Mode
  • **
  • Thank You
  • -Gave: 0
  • -Received: 0
  • Posts: 14
    • View Profile
Re: Samsung LE40M86BD
« Reply #61 on: 16 April 2007, 08:21:28 PM »
It does 1080p via VGA and Component. But it doesn't work for 360 VGA because of the refresh rate. A Problem with the exact 60hz or so...

Is it right that the R Series has better Panels for off-axis performace (S-PVA)??
« Last Edit: 16 April 2007, 09:31:14 PM by Thrakier »

Offline lia01reg

  • Out Of The Box
  • *
  • Thank You
  • -Gave: 0
  • -Received: 0
  • Posts: 9
    • View Profile
Re: Samsung LE40M86BD
« Reply #62 on: 16 April 2007, 10:05:05 PM »
It does 1080p via VGA and Component. But it doesn't work for 360 VGA because of the refresh rate. A Problem with the exact 60hz or so...

Is it right that the R Series has better Panels for off-axis performace (S-PVA)??

Ah, that makes sense. Thanks. Do you know whether the 360 works in 1080p via component at all?

Are there any other HDTVs on the market that will work with a 360 to get 1080p 1920*1080 1:1 mapping?

Cheers,

Raj

Offline Thrakier

  • [Dynamic] Mode
  • **
  • Thank You
  • -Gave: 0
  • -Received: 0
  • Posts: 14
    • View Profile
Re: Samsung LE40M86BD
« Reply #63 on: 16 April 2007, 10:08:55 PM »
360 works @1080p via Component but with a bit Overscan.

Offline joeymac

  • [Dynamic] Mode
  • **
  • Thank You
  • -Gave: 0
  • -Received: 0
  • Posts: 11
    • View Profile
Re: Samsung LE40M86BD
« Reply #64 on: 17 April 2007, 03:21:59 AM »
There are many VGA fixes coming with the 360's spring dashboard update... due first week (ish) of May. Apparently they will also offer an option for selecting a PC or HDTV colour output as well.
Microsoft exec Amir has gone into this over at avsforum.
It might be a good idea to wait and see if that fixes people's problems. There are definitely some fixes for vga and problems with Sony tv's.... I can't find where I read it.... somewhere on avsforum... Samsung 'might' have been with written with Sony.

Offline fuzzball76

  • Out Of The Box
  • *
  • Thank You
  • -Gave: 0
  • -Received: 0
  • Posts: 1
    • View Profile
Re: Samsung LE40M86BD
« Reply #65 on: 17 April 2007, 08:02:18 AM »
I've been following these reviews quite closely and I was planning to buy the 37 " model,
 because the 40 " panel is quite large for the wall it's supposed to go on.
But now I see that the 37 " model does NOT have the SuperClear panel.

Does this affect that model a lot?
Has anyone seen the 40 " and the 37 " side by side?

any ideas ?


Peter

Offline robsonalan

  • Out Of The Box
  • *
  • Thank You
  • -Gave: 0
  • -Received: 0
  • Posts: 1
    • View Profile
Re: Samsung LE40M86BD
« Reply #66 on: 17 April 2007, 10:08:41 AM »
This is a great Review.  I got this TV two weeks ago and I think it is great.

Are you able to let us all know what settings you have used once you have completed the full calibration.  I keep playing with mine an cannot seems to get it quite right.

I have SKYHD HDMI, Media Streamer Component, PS3 HDMI and DVD Recorder via Scart.

Offline Vincent

  • Global Moderator
  • Calibrated
  • *****
  • Thank You
  • -Gave: 184
  • -Received: 336
  • Posts: 567
    • View Profile
Re: Samsung LE40M86BD
« Reply #67 on: 17 April 2007, 10:39:09 AM »
You say that to get round the problem of  "Movie Plus" just give it a Progressive signal. You then go on to talk about how good it is at 1080I with just scan via, presumably, a Tosh E1? Is not the screen just going to give the same problems re "judder" with interlaced signal or is it the case that either I or P at 1080 from the DVD gets round the problem? My E1 goes, currently, to a 720 Tosh and I get judder on that?

Telecine judder is unavoidable regardless of whether Movie Plus is on or off, or whether your E1 is outputting interlaced or progressive signal. It's a necessary evil in converting 24fps films eventually to 60hz on your TV.

What Movie Plus does is to correctly detect 3:2 cadence on NTSC, HD DVD & Blu-ray films, and therefore reduce deinterlacing artifacts like combing, line twitter, jaggies and judder on these materials. But in addition Movie Plus executes Samsung's frame interpolation technology which causes unnatural motion (to my eyes) and loss of the film-like effect. By outputting a progressive signal from your Tosh E1, you do the cadence detection and deinterlacing on the E1 and can disable Movie Plus to avoid the unnatural motion (the "best" of both worlds), with the only compromise being that you have to resort to the LE40M86BD's scaling (which is only average).

OT I think the E1 is a superb scaler for SD DVD's

Agreed.

It seems that this TV has a lot more problems with judder and motion blur than any other. Is this so? If it is, is it really as bad as to being unable to see HD content (24p issue) or sports in it? How is behaving the Sharp xd1e in comparison?.

I'm sorry if my review has caused the above impression, which is simply not true. Motion blur is no worse than any of the current LCDs not employing motion compensation frame interpolation technology; and as mentioned in an answer above, telecine judder can only be completely eliminated by the capability to receive 24fps signal and display it at refresh rates at multiple of 24 (48hz, 72hz, 120hz) without applying 2:3 pulldown in between. None of the HDTVs we've tested so far can do this, with perhaps the exception of PDP4270XD but as we don't own any device capable of outputting 24fps we can't confirm this.

By the way, forgot to ask. Does Sammy allows the calibration per video input channel ? Of course, that includes the primarily RGB gains & cuts (finally Samsung got the right idea to include this as standard), contrast, brightness and few other colour settings - important for calibration, or you have have just one-for-all settings. It's not rare case that you calibrate everything nicely on HDMI input and then switch to component and everything is all over the place. Sometimes, even same type of the video input (for example additional HDMI port) can react differently as each video content player is different. In case that per-input colour settings are not possible, how are the calibrated settings replicated across the video inputs ?

Thanks for the reminder, completely forgot to include this important aspect in my review. Yes, the Samsung LE40M86BD has independent input memory. You can customise the "Dynamic", "Standard" and "Movie" mode for each input (with independent RGB gains and cuts when available); toggling between xvYCC on and off will give you further finetuning with preservation of white balance. For example, in "Movie" mode switching between xvYCC on and off will change the brightness, contrast, etc, but the RGB cuts/gains will remain the same.

... I wanted to know WHEN I have to switch off MoviePlus with the Equipment I use. Every time I put the TV on? Just want to know how much "work" it is in daily use. ;)

My second question was, what does the TV do with 24p Signals? Are they free of judder because of Movie Plus or are there also Problems?

And a third question: I had a 42 C3000p for some days and it's off axis performance was very bad. A bit to the side and the whole screen lightens up on one side when it shows black. Is the M86 as bad? Could you take some Pictures, axis and off-axis with a black background?

Movie Plus is automatically enabled (despite being labelled as "off") every time you switch source/ resolution/ aspect ratio. Fastest I've managed to disable it from the remote control is 7 seconds.

I can't confirm otherwise because I don't own a device capable of outputting 24fps signal, but nothing I've read in the manual states that it can directly accept such signal.

Don't think my camera will cope very well in darkness photographing a TV with minimal light output. As stated in the review, there is a gradual drop-off in contrast and brightness beyond 45 degrees off-axis, but it doesn't sound as bad as what you described for the C3000P.

Offline KeanosMagicHat

  • [Dynamic] Mode
  • **
  • Thank You
  • -Gave: 0
  • -Received: 0
  • Posts: 14
    • View Profile
Re: Samsung LE40M86BD
« Reply #68 on: 17 April 2007, 10:58:09 AM »
There are many VGA fixes coming with the 360's spring dashboard update... due first week (ish) of May. Apparently they will also offer an option for selecting a PC or HDTV colour output as well.
Microsoft exec Amir has gone into this over at avsforum.
It might be a good idea to wait and see if that fixes people's problems. There are definitely some fixes for vga and problems with Sony tv's.... I can't find where I read it.... somewhere on avsforum... Samsung 'might' have been with written with Sony.

This is a quote from the AVForums thread on this screen:

For those having problems with Xbox360 & VGA.....

What HiFi this month are reviewing HD output from Xbox360 & PS3 and the quote from the Xbox360 section about 1080p over VGA is :-

".....we couldn't get it to work. We tried six different HDTVs and projectors, from the likes of Sony, Samsung and Sharp, but not one would accept 1080p via VGA. Microsoft's response-'try again a few times'-wasn't exactly inspiring either."

______________

Seems like the problem does indeed lie with the XBOX.  I don't have one but I'm surprised XBOX owners aren't bombarding MS to get this sorted in the next updates.

Offline PJR918BMW

  • Out Of The Box
  • *
  • Thank You
  • -Gave: 0
  • -Received: 0
  • Posts: 2
    • View Profile
Re: Samsung LE40M86BD
« Reply #69 on: 17 April 2007, 11:16:02 AM »
Vincent

Many thanks for your reply - all becomes clearer - should actually have managed to work that out myself really!   ::) So the only problem really using the E1 as suggested is that I output at 720P - knew I should have bought the X-E1!!! ;D

COMPLETELY OT. I am sure you have plans for this site, click through, advertising whatever - but why are you not charging for these reviews?? Maybe a couple of quid a time for anybody who wants it quick - and then stick it up for free after a couple of weeks? Plus settings - I know all the caveats but I'd rather be starting from yours with the old DVE disc than from cold. Charge for them!! Your stuff is way awy ahead if the likes of "What Sony" monthly!  ;D

Yes, people will copy them and send them round the net but I believe there are people out there who believe good information is worth paying for! So stick up the settings for this one and tell me where you want the money! Seriously!

Regards

Offline Brunob

  • [Dynamic] Mode
  • **
  • Thank You
  • -Gave: 0
  • -Received: 0
  • Posts: 12
    • View Profile
Re: Samsung LE40M86BD
« Reply #70 on: 17 April 2007, 11:44:23 AM »
I can't confirm otherwise because I don't own a device capable of outputting 24fps signal, but nothing I've read in the manual states that it can directly accept such signal.


According to the German web site (http://av.samsung.de/article.asp?artid=BF146C9F-E401-41BD-89A9-BC5BCE662D1F), this TV accepts 24 fps.

"Unsere Full-HD-Displays unterstützen eine vollständig progressive 1080p-Zuspielung – was bedeutet, dass die auf BD und HD-DVD abgelegten Bilder nicht unnötig in Halbbilder zerlegt und interlaced, also im Halbbildverfahren zum Display übertragen werden müssen. Mit Einführung der M8-Serie bieten wir zudem erstmals eine 24-Hertz-Bildsignalverarbeitung an, was eine Einspeisung von 1080p/24 Hertz-Signalen in unsere Full-HD-LCD-Geräte ermöglicht. Auch den Overscan (Bildabschnitt) haben wir abgeschafft – eine native 1080p-Pixel-auf-Pixel-Darstellung ist also gewährleistet. Somit stellen wir sicher, dass Sie Filme tatsächlich so erleben, wie sie im Studio erschaffen wurden."

Here is the google translation:

"Our Full HP displays support a completely progressive 1080p-Zuspielung - which means that the pictures put down on BD and HD-DVD will thus transfer not unnecessarily divided into half-images and interlaced, in the Halbbildverfahren to the display must. With introduction of the M8-Serie we offer besides for the first time a 24-Hertz-Bildsignalverarbeitung, which makes a feed of 1080p/24 for cycle per second signals possible into our Full HP LCD devices. Also we abolished the Overscan (picture section) - a native 1080p-Pixel-auf-Pixel-Darstellung is thus ensured. Thus we guarantee that you experience films actually in such a way, how they became to create in the Studio."

Offline b0bb1ns

  • [Dynamic] Mode
  • **
  • Thank You
  • -Gave: 6
  • -Received: 0
  • Posts: 19
    • View Profile
Re: Samsung LE40M86BD
« Reply #71 on: 17 April 2007, 01:12:24 PM »
... my question is about the ntsc comment you made - does this model 86/87 accept ntsc signals, i'm asking cos my gamecube and ps2 can play ntsc games so was wondering will they be fine on these models....

I contacted Samsung about this and they confirmed NTSC playback is fine, so both the PS2 and Gamecube should work ok.  This is a copy of their email:

"With regard toyour email concerning the ability to use NTSC via scart,
I can confirmthat this is possible as the TV is multi-regional, so - as
long as theconnected unit is NTSC or NTSC compatible also, this will be
OK"

Offline Thrakier

  • [Dynamic] Mode
  • **
  • Thank You
  • -Gave: 0
  • -Received: 0
  • Posts: 14
    • View Profile
Re: Samsung LE40M86BD
« Reply #72 on: 17 April 2007, 01:49:38 PM »
Movie Plus is automatically enabled (despite being labelled as "off") every time you switch source/ resolution/ aspect ratio. Fastest I've managed to disable it from the remote control is 7 seconds.

So that means in my case, when I play PS3 @1080p I'm fine. I'm also fine if I then switch to 360@720p via Component. I'm still fine if I then start my Wii @480p. Still fine with DVD @720p from Pana S52,  but not fine with DVD @1080i (btw, you said, that it looked great, but isn't movie mode active there and "destroys" the pq?). But when I switch over to Sat TV @480i I have to change it. And I' have to change it again if I switch between, let's say 360 and TV. Or PS2 @480i and PS3. XD ;) ?

Offline Uridium

  • Out Of The Box
  • *
  • Thank You
  • -Gave: 0
  • -Received: 0
  • Posts: 6
    • View Profile
Re: Samsung LE40M86BD
« Reply #73 on: 17 April 2007, 02:03:29 PM »


For those having problems with Xbox360 & VGA.....

Seems like the problem does indeed lie with the XBOX.  I don't have one but I'm surprised XBOX owners aren't bombarding MS to get this sorted in the next updates.
I've certainly emailed them and would urge everyone else to do the same thing. I just used the contact form on the xbox.com site.

Offline kevin 33

  • Out Of The Box
  • *
  • Thank You
  • -Gave: 0
  • -Received: 0
  • Posts: 2
    • View Profile
Re: Samsung LE40M86BD
« Reply #74 on: 17 April 2007, 03:21:19 PM »
Hey Guys

my first post t a great forum, and congratulations to the promoters of hdtvtest.co.uk, great work.

I will appreciate help in regards a simple question. Im  looking within next week to buy a 46" LCD TV and have come down to  two options - the Samsung M86 or the Sony W 462000.

I will use it primarily for standard DVDs , Sky HD and a lot of SD TV. (Equipment - Denon AV4306 + a Toshiba DVD player with upscaling capability)

I will appreciate your opinion.

tks