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Why copying settings from the web won't get you a calibrated TV

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Offline David Mackenzie

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Re: Why copying calibrated settings from the internet isn't worthwhile
« Reply #15 on: 14 June 2012, 10:48:50 PM »

David, okay, I'm gonna sound weird and ignorant to the morale of this topic, but can you please share your settings for 50ST50 after calibration anyway? I'm curious to compare them with another results and experiment with my ST50, and also I would like to know how many Contrast clicks correspond to ~120 cd/m2 output on your set.
I'd be grateful if you can do that, please. :-[

Don't worry, I just pointed out that it wasn't a good idea, not that talking about it is verboten. That's against the principles of this forum :)

Sure, this is what I ended up with in True Cinema:

Contrast: set to max, then reduce by 15
Brightness: default
Colour: -2
Sharpness: 0
Vivid Colour: Off
CATS: Off
PNR: Off

WB: -3 0 9 1 -7 -5
CMS: -5 -2 -1 2 -30 1 -3 -1 0
Gamma: 2.6 to achieve something near 2.4

Will be interested to see your numbers too, so we can compare two of the same size :)
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Offline FoxHounder

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Re: Why copying calibrated settings from the internet isn't worthwhile
« Reply #16 on: 15 June 2012, 06:07:27 AM »
Will be interested to see your numbers too, so we can compare two of the same size :)
That's exactly what I am going to do. ;)
I may check this settings by eye to notice main difference, but pretty soon I plan to order a proper calibration from local specialist, and then I'm gonna share my 50ST50 individual settings so we may compare them and make some conslusions.
Maybe they will be relatively close on 50" versions, and people may be able to use it as a rough starting point.
Well, anyway, thank you very much for sharing! :)
Video: Panasonic TX-PR55VT60 + Pioneer BDP-140
Audio: Onkyo TX-NR626 + Boston Acoustics CS260 II 5.1

Offline FoxHounder

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Re: Why copying calibrated settings from the internet isn't worthwhile
« Reply #17 on: 15 June 2012, 06:14:28 AM »
Contrast: set to max, then reduce by 15
That's amazing, as I stopped at 45 clicks out of 60 (exactly the same as you) when eyeballing a panel brightness for comfort day viewing.
I managed to do the same with 42S20, and it took 46 clicks to reach 120 cd/m2 on that set. First I eyeballed it, then I took the measurement.
I guess my eyes are pretty "calibrated" to see 120 cd/m2 after all. :P
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Offline SETEM

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Re: Why copying calibrated settings from the internet isn't worthwhile
« Reply #18 on: 15 June 2012, 01:02:08 PM »
Giga Post, comin' up! LoL :P
(Many thoughts on this subject, guys...)

Now put you in the shoes of a meter-less owner that suffers for example from a green tinted ootb greyscale. What woud you do ? You would try 2pt greyscale values from reviewers/DIY owners. On some sets no need to be a pro calibrator to actually see the green or red tint and witness the effect of the new settings. Of course the greyscale, color temp etc will drift along the way. You may then find usefull to try settings from an older set, tweak them etc.
That's me ;)
You only need to be not colour blind to see that my 50G30's THX mode is too green. I didn't need a meter or any test patterns for that :P
The settings I got from flatpanelshd.com were much better, though slightly blueish (nowhere near as bad as the THX's greenness, though).
Later on I got settings from David's own 50G30, which were quite a lot better than those again (very nice greyscale, apart from a bit too much red in the absolute darkest shades, I suspect from test patterns).
I know my set is not calibrated, but at least I'm not bothered by the inaccuracies now! I love it.

I still believe in the usefulness of posting and trying to use calibrated settings from reviewers, pro and DIY calibrators. It is not perfect, it may even make your picture actually worse but let's be honest here for a moment. We all started this way, reading reviews, browsing forums, toying around with settings, getting this way more and more interested in PQ and calibration.
Yep. I started out just wondering how much better a TV could be from a proper calibration. Sort of sounded a bit over-exaggerated to me, since I'd always been able to get a satisfiable picture just by tweaking a little on my (inexperienced) own.
Then I tried some settings on my 42G20 from flatpanelshd.com out of curiosity, since I had read the reviews before making a purchase, and WOW - Star Wars did look better like that.
Since then - i.e. since actually seeing for myself how much of an improvement some plainly copied settings could make, and given that all TV's are complex pieces of technology and therefore obviously subject to many minor differences from each other - I've had no trouble believing that "these guys calibrating with proper equipment" could take it quite a lot further.
(The two-step change from "THX"-->"flatpanelshd"-->"settings from David" only helped make this even more abundantly clear! :o)
My interest in TV-tech has only gotten bigger since that first "dirty, dirty copy" ::)

That's why I think these settings should remain public and Pro/DIY calilbrators should keep on posting theirs. It's beneficial for everyone even the professionals getting more clients that way.
...
The more ppl will be interested in PQ (hence settings), the merrier we will all be.
I would think so, as I've personally influenced most of my friends into being more interested in their TV's performance.
One of them got the same "two-step change" as mine (55" Samsung LED, B7070-series), and was equally as impressed as I was. Another is currently using settings copied from flatpanelshd (65VT20, minor improvement), and awaiting a testing of the ones from HDTVtest :P (I've given them the usual disclaimer, made a point that this might cock up their TV completely, PQ-wise. And they understand, and agree on the whole thing)
And many of my friends have asked me quite regularly about "which TV is the best" and stuff like that, when they've been looking for a new TV, or when they've simply been reading offers.
I would imagine that they, too, might also enlighten others again, that Dynamic mode is not a good thing ??? even though the shop-man might say "yes, this one has good picture. It bright and much many colours" :P
All this interest, just because I found some settings for my G20 on a review site on the internet.

Now, although I live in Norway and there's not much rave goin' on over here about TV-calibration, I don't think my case of getting friends interested in getting more out of their AV-tech is unique.
I believe this probably happens all the time around the world (well, not ALL countries, but you get the point).

I think reviewers should make their settings available to the public, for the sake of "spreading the word".
Simply to get people interested.

And I think one could get interested in calibration even if some copied settings make your set worse, because you'd see how much of an impact small, directed changes could have on your picture quality - That is, IF that was pointed out to them, perhaps in the disclaimer, along with the other stuff .
I know I did, and many of my friends too...

Just my thoughts (and some experiences) on this topic :)

(BTW, my AV-madness has only gotten worse with me popping in here with you lot regularly :D :P
Such a great forum... ;D)
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(Panasonic TX-P50G30Y, Pioneer PDP-LX5090, Panasonic TX-P42ST60Y)

Offline SETEM

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Re: Why copying calibrated settings from the internet isn't worthwhile
« Reply #19 on: 15 June 2012, 01:33:32 PM »
Setem, http://www.avshop.no/SystemConfigurator.aspx?q=st:10512206;c:100462;fl:0
Follow the address for prices.

Thanks, artur79 :)
I had a look, and it turns out they take about 2500 NOK for a TV Cal, which is about 270 GBP.
However, they won't do it at my house - but they will for projectors, though that costs 433 GBP +++!.
So they want about £ 270, and they can't come to my house?! They want me to trust them to drive away with my TV?! HELL NO! :P
The last two times I let someone (repairs) drive away with my previous TV, it came back with dirt, scratches, and am extra defect. And that was only a 42".
These guys also state:
Quote
Hvis eventuelle defekter oppstår på produktet som kalibreres og eventuelt behov for ny kalibrering oppstår gir dessverre ikke dette rett til ny kalibrering. I slike tilfeller vil vi imidlertid tilby en rabatt, ta kontakt for nærmere avtale.

Which basically says "should a defect arise on the calibrated product and should the need for a new calibration arise, this does unfortunately not give [you] the right to a new calibration. In such cases we will, however, offer a discount. Please contact us "for a closer agreement"" (last part directly translated).
And they state nothing there about "don't worry - we handle you stuff with care" or "if we break it, rest assured - we will replace" or something usual like that..

No, I would never trust anyone to take my TV away. ALL TV-repairs I've EVER heard of from my friends, and my own experience tells me not to. Nothing personal, but I just won't take that chance, unless it's clearly stated that "if we so much as give you a medium scratch on the bezel, we'll offer you a replacement/money for it" :P

But it's nice to know that someone does calibration here!!!
I think I'm going to ask them whether they'd be able to do it here, at my house. Or if they have plans to expand their services to include that for TV's as well :D
(Can't afford it atm, anyway though, but when I can, I'd bee very interested)

Thanks again, though, artur79 :) (Do you perhaps live in Norway..?)
Panasonic TX-P55VT60Y, PS4, PS3, X360, Wii, Pioneer VSX-421, Sony SS-FCR4000 5.0, Yamaha YST-FSW100.
(Panasonic TX-P50G30Y, Pioneer PDP-LX5090, Panasonic TX-P42ST60Y)

Offline David Mackenzie

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Re: Why copying settings from the web won't get you a calibrated TV
« Reply #20 on: 15 June 2012, 04:21:31 PM »
Hey all, I changed the original thread title from "Why copying settings from the internet isn't worthwhile" to "won't get you a calibrated TV". Someone pointed out that the original title could come across as dismissive rather than informational, and although I don't disagree with the original title in theory, I can see how it could be read that way. The point SETEM made about encouraging people to adjust the settings getting them interested in the underlying technology is very true, I think.

Anyway, dismissive-ness obviously isn't what I want to project on a forum with friendliness and openness as one of its key ideas, so I renamed the thread.
« Last Edit: 15 June 2012, 04:25:33 PM by David Mackenzie »
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Offline SETEM

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Re: Why copying settings from the web won't get you a calibrated TV
« Reply #21 on: 15 June 2012, 04:59:35 PM »
Hey all, I changed the original thread title from "Why copying settings from the internet isn't worthwhile" to "won't get you a calibrated TV". Someone pointed out that the original title could come across as dismissive rather than informational, and although I don't disagree with the original title in theory, I can see how it could be read that way. The point SETEM made about encouraging people to adjust the settings getting them interested in the underlying technology is very true, I think.

Anyway, dismissive-ness obviously isn't what I want to project on a forum with friendliness and openness as one of its key ideas, so I renamed the thread.

Whew, just glad I didn't get banned :o close shave :-[

(LOL :P)
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Offline David Mackenzie

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Re: Why copying settings from the web won't get you a calibrated TV
« Reply #22 on: 15 June 2012, 05:08:00 PM »
Quote
Whew, just glad I didn't get banned
Wrong forum for that kind of thing  8)
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Offline SETEM

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Re: Why copying settings from the web won't get you a calibrated TV
« Reply #23 on: 15 June 2012, 05:30:44 PM »
Quote
Whew, just glad I didn't get banned
Wrong forum for that kind of thing  8)
Yep 8)
And for those not too familiar with this forum - That was a joke :P :P :P
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Offline JrCalibrator

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Re: Why copying settings from the web won't get you a calibrated TV
« Reply #24 on: 15 June 2012, 06:17:22 PM »
Despite the original Title was correct i agree with David , as usual, it is better now and more friendly! :-*

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Re: Why copying settings from the web won't get you a calibrated TV
« Reply #25 on: 15 June 2012, 06:22:16 PM »

I think I'm going to ask them whether they'd be able to do it here, at my house. Or if they have plans to expand their services to include that for TV's as well :D
(Can't afford it atm, anyway though, but when I can, I'd bee very interested)

Thanks again, though, artur79 :) (Do you perhaps live in Norway..?)

Buy the meter and software and do the calibration yourself, plenty of folks around here who would help you get all that up and running and it would be cheaper and more fun and you will learn a new skill at the same time.

Offline JrCalibrator

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Re: Why copying settings from the web won't get you a calibrated TV
« Reply #26 on: 15 June 2012, 07:48:50 PM »
Also "in house" calibration are better because they take into account your room condition.

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Offline SETEM

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Re: Why copying settings from the web won't get you a calibrated TV
« Reply #27 on: 15 June 2012, 08:58:49 PM »
Buy the meter and software and do the calibration yourself, plenty of folks around here who would help you get all that up and running and it would be cheaper and more fun and you will learn a new skill at the same time.
Also "in house" calibration are better because they take into account your room condition.
These thoughts did cross my mind... ::)
Yep, if I can afford it not too far into the future, I'll get software, a decent enough meter and some guidance from here :D
It would be cheaper, and definitely a lot more fun! 8)
I have but one concern: how long does a meter stay accurate and what to do when it's gone way off? ??? Don't they do that after a while..?
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Offline tele1962

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Re: Why copying settings from the web won't get you a calibrated TV
« Reply #28 on: 15 June 2012, 09:03:13 PM »
Buy the meter and software and do the calibration yourself, plenty of folks around here who would help you get all that up and running and it would be cheaper and more fun and you will learn a new skill at the same time.
Also "in house" calibration are better because they take into account your room condition.
These thoughts did cross my mind... ::)
Yep, if I can afford it not too far into the future, I'll get software, a decent enough meter and some guidance from here :D
It would be cheaper, and definitely a lot more fun! 8)
I have but one concern: how long does a meter stay accurate and what to do when it's gone way off? ??? Don't they do that after a while..?

Yes they do and usually i would say after a year or so it might be an idea for the meter to be profiled against a professional one. I think Ricky offers this service also.

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Offline FoxHounder

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Re: Why copying settings from the web won't get you a calibrated TV
« Reply #29 on: 15 June 2012, 11:00:18 PM »
The point SETEM made about encouraging people to adjust the settings getting them interested in the underlying technology is very true, I think.
I second that. Perhaps, copying settings from Internet won't give you a calibrated TV (obviously), but at least people may notice how changes in settings may affect actual viewing expirience, and encourage them to further investigate into calibration/proper settings matter.
I guess, sharing personal settings can't do as much harm as not knowing about calibration principles at all.

Giga Post, comin' up! LoL :P
You remind me of myself when I got my hands on first internet forums about guitar playing. :P
I also had a lot to say (and even more to ask), so my posts were pretty vast.
By the way, I like Norway and Scandinavia very much. Norse tradition is one of my other obsessions besides AV-industry. ;)
Please don't worry, UK/US/Italian and other mates - I also admire your countries as well!
« Last Edit: 15 June 2012, 11:18:03 PM by FoxHounder »
Video: Panasonic TX-PR55VT60 + Pioneer BDP-140
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