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Philips 9707

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Offline David Mackenzie

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Re: Philips 9707
« Reply #30 on: 08 February 2013, 08:43:25 PM »

I met TP Vision/Philips at CES. It does seem like they are ramping up their promotional activities in the UK. Don't be surprised if you see the first Philips TV review on HDTVtest in years soon  :nod:
Nice teasing! :P It would be very interesting.

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Offline tele1962

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Re: Philips 9707
« Reply #31 on: 08 February 2013, 08:49:50 PM »
Great review matey, for the price it looks to be a great perfomer. :)

Offline SETEM

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Re: Philips 9707
« Reply #32 on: 11 February 2013, 01:32:19 PM »
Thanks for the great review, David. Excellent as always ;)
I also noticed how you explained a few basic things, in case any newcomers are reading. A nice touch, considering 'tis the first TV review this year :nod:

(Also, thanks for the nice reviews about those projectors, m8, in case I haven't said so already :) Haven't had a chance to read about the JVC DLA-X35 yet, but I'm sure it'll be a great read!)


Edit: Here's to more Philips reviews, too! (beer mug smiley :P)
« Last Edit: 11 February 2013, 01:35:25 PM by SETEM »
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Offline shimrod

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Re: Philips 9707
« Reply #33 on: 18 February 2013, 12:20:20 PM »
Hello

Avforums has published finally the 9707 review

http://www.avforums.com/reviews/Philips-46PFL9707-PFL9707-9000-Series-LED-LCD-3D-TV-Review_463/Review.html

Their conclusion: "Quite simply, the Philips 46PFL9707 delivers the best 2D picture we have seen from a LED LCD TV to date"

It would be wonderful if HDTVTest could confirm that.

Thanks

Offline FoxHounder

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Re: Philips 9707
« Reply #34 on: 18 February 2013, 01:21:44 PM »
It's more or less in the ballpark of Sony HX920 and HX950. They're stronger than any average Edge-LED LCD, but I think USA Sharp Elite is still more advanced in PQ.
Sony and Philips may be the best Local-dimming LED LCDs available in Europe, though.
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Offline David Mackenzie

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Re: Philips 9707
« Reply #35 on: 18 February 2013, 03:16:15 PM »
We plan to review it  :nod:
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Offline FoxHounder

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Re: Philips 9707
« Reply #36 on: 04 April 2013, 12:53:57 PM »
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Offline petasis

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Re: Philips 9707
« Reply #37 on: 04 April 2013, 01:25:00 PM »
As an owner of 9705, I would advise to review the TV using "Typical" as local dimming function, and not "best picture". Also, are you sure the ANSI black level was 0.037, with local dimming on?
On my 9705 this was below 0.02...

Offline petasis

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Re: Philips 9707
« Reply #38 on: 04 April 2013, 01:25:59 PM »
Also, what was the measuring sensor used in measurements?

Offline tele1962

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Re: Philips 9707
« Reply #39 on: 04 April 2013, 02:00:33 PM »
Also, what was the measuring sensor used in measurements?

Usualy the Klein K10 i believe. :)

Offline FoxHounder

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Re: Philips 9707
« Reply #40 on: 04 April 2013, 02:25:00 PM »
As an owner of 9705, I would advise to review the TV using "Typical" as local dimming function, and not "best picture". Also, are you sure the ANSI black level was 0.037, with local dimming on?
On my 9705 this was below 0.02...
I tested 9707 with i1Display Pro with dimming either "off" or on "normal/standard" setting (I can't remember how it's called in English menu, I think it's the first option next to "Off").
My sample had pretty impressive black level, which was 0.03 cd/m2 average on 4x4 ANSI chart without local dimming. Native contrast measured around 3800:1, it had a tad more "pop" than typical Samsung/Sony S-PVA panel.
With dimming enabled in ISF Night mode the average brightness was ~91 cd/m2 on ANSI, and average MLL was as low as 0,0106 cd/m2.
I should point out that my sample had Sharp UV2A LCD panel with peculiar subpixel structure, which is exactly the same as described in David's review. I don't know which software version it was running, since Philips firmwares are a little buggy from my experience. Looks like my sample was little different after all... Or maybe I did something wrong. :-[

Also, what was the measuring sensor used in measurements?
I believe, the Klein K-10 was used, which is very high-end sensor with great low-light sensitivity.
« Last Edit: 04 April 2013, 02:27:36 PM by FoxHounder »
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Offline David Mackenzie

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Re: Philips 9707
« Reply #41 on: 04 April 2013, 04:59:30 PM »
As an owner of 9705, I would advise to review the TV using "Typical" as local dimming function, and not "best picture". Also, are you sure the ANSI black level was 0.037, with local dimming on?
On my 9705 this was below 0.02...
Hi Petasis,

What difference did you note from using "Typical" ("Normal" in the English menu?) vs "Best picture"? All of the modes caused clipping in our case.

Perhaps the difference in ANSI measurements is a result of the different patterns. We use the center-modified ones from the AVSHD disc.
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Offline FoxHounder

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Re: Philips 9707
« Reply #42 on: 04 April 2013, 05:24:20 PM »
Perhaps the difference in ANSI measurements is a result of the different patterns. We use the center-modified ones from the AVSHD disc.
Oh yeah, center-modified measurements can definitely give little different results. I ended up using full 4x4 ANSI pattern and measuring the average luminance across the whole panel (I certainly "borrowed" it from AVForums and shootout :-[).

Here are my 9707 results on center-modified ANSI pattern, just for the sake of statistics:
ISF Day (Local Dimming Off) - 122,4 cd/m2 white & 0,032 cd/m2 black
ISF Night (Local Dimming On) - 108,8 cd/m2 white & 0,015 cd/m2 black
Video: Panasonic TX-PR55VT60 + Pioneer BDP-140
Audio: Onkyo TX-NR626 + Boston Acoustics CS260 II 5.1

Offline petasis

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Re: Philips 9707
« Reply #43 on: 04 April 2013, 09:12:33 PM »
As an owner of 9705, I would advise to review the TV using "Typical" as local dimming function, and not "best picture". Also, are you sure the ANSI black level was 0.037, with local dimming on?
On my 9705 this was below 0.02...
Hi Petasis,

What difference did you note from using "Typical" ("Normal" in the English menu?) vs "Best picture"? All of the modes caused clipping in our case.

Perhaps the difference in ANSI measurements is a result of the different patterns. We use the center-modified ones from the AVSHD disc.

The "Standard" (as called in 9705 in English) local dimming option is the most balanced of all: the LED never switch off, but they remain a very low brightness, and is not as aggressive as the "best picture" one. Gamma is not level in any of the modes, but the fluctuation in standard is more mild than in best picture. Finally, best picture will ignore signal bellow 15-20%, showing black in its place. This means that in movies you can get a totally black screen in dark scenes, or in patterns below 20 IRE. All these do not happen in standard mode.

I expect 9707 to be a little different, but it will be a surprise if it is too different...

Regarding the ANSI measurement pattern, there is only one, the check-board with the 16 rectangles.
I am not familiar with the pattern you mention, can you post an image? I failed to locate it in AVSHD.

But the measurement you report (0.037) suggests that either local dimming was off, or the black level was wrong. Can you report measurements on the ANSI pattern?

Offline FoxHounder

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Re: Philips 9707
« Reply #44 on: 04 April 2013, 09:26:53 PM »
Finally, best picture will ignore signal bellow 15-20%, showing black in its place. This means that in movies you can get a totally black screen in dark scenes, or in patterns below 20 IRE. All these do not happen in standard mode.
I specially checked if crushing appeared with local dimming on "Normal/Standard/Whatever-it's-called".
The shadow details were pretty much intact with no crushing. That amazed me a little, since I anticipated some losses. Despite some luminance changes (obviously), I was able to pick as much dark details and texture.
Gamma did shift to some extent with local dimming enabled, but measured with APL patterns it was pretty flat. And if there is plenty of black fields, the 9707 can actually shut down some zones to clear zero. The area must be video black with size at least around 10%, though. And it causes any other zones with higher MLL to stand out too much, which is described in review.
Video: Panasonic TX-PR55VT60 + Pioneer BDP-140
Audio: Onkyo TX-NR626 + Boston Acoustics CS260 II 5.1