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JVC DLA-X35 Projector Review

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Offline David Mackenzie

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JVC DLA-X35 Projector Review
« on: 06 February 2013, 01:11:46 AM »

http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/jvc-x35-201302052614.htm

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Offline tele1962

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Re: JVC DLA-X35 Projector Review
« Reply #1 on: 06 February 2013, 05:15:56 PM »
Defo want one of these. :clap:

Offline jborchel

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Re: JVC DLA-X35 Projector Review
« Reply #2 on: 24 May 2013, 02:20:46 AM »
Enjoyed reading the review. Looks like the calibration was very successful. Could you share all of the settings that gave you such good results. I would like to try them on mine.

Offline David Mackenzie

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Re: JVC DLA-X35 Projector Review
« Reply #3 on: 24 May 2013, 09:32:45 AM »
I didn't note any down, but have a read of this:

http://forums.hdtvtest.co.uk/index.php?topic=7202.0

And then remember that it applies x100 for UHP-based projectors. The greyscale drifts constantly as the lamp ages, so any settings would be completely useless in another unit.
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Offline jborchel

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Re: JVC DLA-X35 Projector Review
« Reply #4 on: 24 May 2013, 06:20:03 PM »
David,

I read the link and I understand what you are saying but I can tell you that in real use the concept doesn't hold (completely) up. When I first got my JVC I used settings from a noted reviewer who did post his settings on a message board. I can tell you that it was night and day compared to the out of box and DVE adjustments that I performed. The improvement was every bit as good as that of a professional calibration performed by a noted ISF calibrator on my Sharp 12000 MKII a few years ago. Ninety per cent of the owners of these high end projectors do not have the experience or skill to see the differences in the picture projected seen by a piece of electronic gear or a trained eye unless one can compare it to another set of settings. In this case, the settings one has started with. That's the cool thing about these displays; if the new set of settings isn't better then "no harm, no foul". You simply erase or don't use "User 2" and keep looking for another set posted on a site. After reading your glowing review and seeing the great results you got as shown by your graphs I was hoping that I might benefit from the article.

Although the professional calibrators might put you on their bad guy list for posting your settings I would suggest that you might pick up ten times more friends by offering your experience's results to your readers.Don't forget the ninety per cent.

Offline David Mackenzie

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Re: JVC DLA-X35 Projector Review
« Reply #5 on: 24 May 2013, 06:31:06 PM »
That definitely hasn't been my experience, least of all with projectors. Do you know for a fact that the transplanted settings made an improvement?

I ask because in the calibrations I've done for people using these, I've often witnessed a big placebo effect, where the copied settings have actually made grayscale tracking worse than the stock modes, but the client claims otherwise - until they see the scientific measurements.

The exception to me giving out settings is when there is no good preset mode, where copied settings will absolutely be better than the manufacturer's best attempt (that's why I gave out settings for the 3D mode on an Epson projector which had the THX mode removed in Europe, and also on some older Samsung plasmas). I really don't want to create a placebo effect situation, where people think that, because they've gone to the effort to copy numbers, they've made an improvement (when they've actually done the opposite).

Believe me, I hope we do see a day where people can get accurate imaging without extra expenditure. One of my main activities is BD/DVD video encoding work and film cleanup, and it pains me to think of how all that hard work gets mangled on an average uncalibrated display. I think we'd be in a better world if  calibration wasn't still necessary, but it is.
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Offline jborchel

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Re: JVC DLA-X35 Projector Review
« Reply #6 on: 24 May 2013, 07:18:50 PM »
David,

The improvement for me is in the eyes, not in the numbers. If it looks better to the viewer, who cares if it's not accurate according to the graphs. Also, how many of the users have the exact same color viewing capacity in the eyes. Everyone probably sees a color chart slightly different. Take my eyes, I have red/green color blindness. Wikipedia says "Individuals of Northern European ancestry, as many as 8 percent of men and 0.5 percent of women experience the common form of red-green color blindness". This alone throws out the charts for almost ten per cent of projector owners.

All I want is something that looks good to me eyes. If a set of numbers don't look good compared to the existing set I simply throw them away. Simple as that. BTW, I recently purchased a BenQ W1080ST and tried it out of the box as many early users were claiming it was great that way. I also tried several other suggestions posted by some of the hobby calibrators on the thread. None appeared to be very good. Then I read a review of the BenQ W1070, sister projector to the W1080ST, on AVForums, a UK board site that I'm sure you know. The reviewer did post his settings and I found them to be much better to my eyes than the ones I had tried previously. I almost kept the projector after using it for a while with those settings. Made the mistake of taking it into my video room and comparing it to my JVC and it wasn't anywhere close to the quality of the admittedly more expensive projector. The difference was clearly apparent to my eyes and yet both were calibrated to a quality set of numbers. It's in the eyes not the numbers.

Nevertheless, thanks for taking the time to read and reply to my rants.
I hope that as you do more reviews that maybe you can save the settings and offer them through the PM process to those who ask for them.

Offline David Mackenzie

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Re: JVC DLA-X35 Projector Review
« Reply #7 on: 24 May 2013, 07:39:04 PM »
Quote
If it looks better to the viewer, who cares if it's not accurate according to the graphs.

Respectfully, this isn't the point of calibration. It's a scientific process which makes a real and measurable improvement, not just one that might feel better. The filmmakers, DoPs, colorists etc - would all care if it's accurate or not.

For example - I could literally make up some numbers, give them out, and because of my position as a tech consultant, some people might plug them in and experience a placebo effect, being happy that they're using "expert settings". It wouldn't make them right, of course.

Quote
Take my eyes, I have red/green color blindness. Wikipedia says "Individuals of Northern European ancestry, as many as 8 percent of men and 0.5 percent of women experience the common form of red-green color blindness". This alone throws out the charts for almost ten per cent of projector owners.
This is an interesting point, and one which borders on neuroscience. I'm not sure it would throw the charts out, though - assuming this form of color blindness is lifelong, would I be wrong in saying that the brain will compensate the relative differences? It's interesting, and something I don't know a lot about.

To be honest, I'm not 100% convinced that what you're seeing isn't a placebo effect if you have no way of checking the results. But I totally understand where you're coming from. UHP lamps in projectors are a nightmare for calibration on a budget and need recalibrated frequently. A way to avoid that cost would only be a good thing, IMO.

Likewise, thanks for sharing your opinion.
« Last Edit: 24 May 2013, 09:07:05 PM by David Mackenzie »
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FoxyMulder

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Re: JVC DLA-X35 Projector Review
« Reply #8 on: 24 May 2013, 08:55:36 PM »

(that's why I gave out settings for the 3D mode on an Epson projector which had the THX mode removed in Europe, and also on some older Samsung plasmas).
I asked for this about oh a dozen times, i'm not impatient at all, i wonder though if you can provide some settings for the 3D mode on the Samsung E6500, if you don't have them anymore then that's also cool, a reply appreciated.  :help:

Offline David Mackenzie

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Re: JVC DLA-X35 Projector Review
« Reply #9 on: 24 May 2013, 09:05:37 PM »
I don't have any here, sorry.
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Offline FoxHounder

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Re: JVC DLA-X35 Projector Review
« Reply #10 on: 24 May 2013, 10:05:27 PM »
If it looks better to the viewer, who cares if it's not accurate according to the graphs.
That's a slippery road, which usually leads to image quality loss. If it looks better to a trained/experienced eyes, which are used to accurate colours, then it's probably a good indication.
For most viewers brightish picture with wildly saturated colors is a pinnacle of one's desires.
And copying any settings on projectors is quite bad idea, I guess, since the particular screen should also be taken into account.
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Offline jborchel

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Re: JVC DLA-X35 Projector Review
« Reply #11 on: 24 May 2013, 10:28:34 PM »
"And copying any settings on projectors is quite bad idea, I guess, since the particular screen should also be taken into account.'

The review of the X35 said the measurements were taken directly from the lens projection image into the eye of the meter. "Our JVC DLA-X35 review sample was calibrated using Calman Professional, the industry-leading video calibration software. These measurements reflect the projector shooting into the lens of our colorimeter." Therefore the screen used with the projector would not matter. Another reason for posting settings for those who wish to try them.