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2013 Panasonic Plasma

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Offline dutchflea

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Re: 2013 Panasonic Plasma
« Reply #15 on: 23 February 2013, 09:09:13 PM »

I did answer. ST60 is ST50. Not telling people that is simply Panasonic not caring about the mindless consumers.

Sorry, but no, you did not answer. I would like to know based on what information you take it for a fact that ST60 = ST50, and what the source of that information is. Can't see anything wrong with that.

Quoting my post from the other topic:


I would like to know based on which information you are convinced that ST60EU=ST50EU. Is it just that single statement from avjunkie "Looks like all those st50 parts left unsold found a new home.", or do you have more info? Maybe you got this information somewhere else?

If it is just based on the above sentence from avjunkie then I personally think we need more information to support that statement before presenting it as a fact.

Especially because that statement was just a impulsive reaction from him, based on the pictures of the EU models that came online. Those look identical to me -with not much extra info in the supporting text at all- apart from the silver stand. The silver stand could indeed be a ST50 one but I couldn't care less about that. Also, like Insanity said, he repeatedly stated he doesnt deal with the EU/UK market, only knows what happens in US.


Quote
David, since Solar did not answer my question: at the convention, did you get any hint that points to the European ST60 being a rebranded ST50?
No, nothing to suggest that specifically.

Even if the ST60 is a rebranded ST50, that honestly isn't anything new. Two generations of TVs often do share the same panels (it's cheaper) with tweaks to the driving software. I don't really care what's inside the TV, it just has to perform well. Not every part of it needs to be brand new.

There's always a "waterfall effect" anyway. Panel technology that was once high end filters down to the lower ranges. What's new?

My understanding is that in terms of "premium"-ness, in order: Euro ST60, American ST60, Euro GT60.

Or to put it differently, in Europe there are two ranges at opposite ends, whereas America gets one roughly in the middle.

Of course we'll need to wait and see how they perform on the bench. That's what counts.

That's exactly what I would expect based on the ST+GT Euro vs ST-only US line-up. And as far as I am concerned, if the Euro ST60 has the exact same panel as the ST50 this still doesn't mean they are the same tv's with a different label. There is more to a television than just a panel. They can have different circuit boards, cpu's, panel driving, etc, not to mention other goodies as speakers, smart-tv functions,  not to forget design, etc etc.
« Last Edit: 23 February 2013, 09:18:17 PM by dutchflea »

Offline fahrenheit

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Re: 2013 Panasonic Plasma
« Reply #16 on: 28 February 2013, 10:18:39 PM »
So apparently there is going to be a game mode option avaliable in most picture presets (as opposed to being a dedicated preset) on select models.
I asked whether this would be remembered per input or whether you would have to select it everytime but that isn't clear yet.

It is good in that now you will be able to use picture settings as you see fit, rather than having to put up with the very noisy and messed up gamma on the 2012 models game mode, but if you have to wade through the TV menu everytime you turn your console/PC on, then its going to be rather frustrating.

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Offline Vincent

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Re: 2013 Panasonic Plasma
« Reply #17 on: 28 February 2013, 10:31:24 PM »
So apparently there is going to be a game mode option avaliable in most picture presets (as opposed to being a dedicated preset) on select models.
I asked whether this would be remembered per input or whether you would have to select it everytime but that isn't clear yet.

I've just received another Panasonic 2013 LED LCD TV for review, and will put this on my checklist once I get it set up.

Warmest regards
Vincent

Offline SETEM

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Re: 2013 Panasonic Plasma
« Reply #18 on: 28 February 2013, 11:03:58 PM »
Looking forward to the next review 8)

Regarding Game modes on plasmas, haven't the Panasonic PDP's had exactly the same amount of input-lag in both Game, True Cinema/THX and Professional picture modes, though..? ??? (at least since 2009/2010?)

Vincent, btw, I used those instructions to get into the SM of my G30 and iron out the green tinge of the THX mode :) I haven't calibrated using a meter or anything, but at least now THX will be useful during the daytime without any obvious tint ;)

Thanks for the good instructions!
Panasonic TX-P55VT60Y, PS4, PS3, X360, Wii, Pioneer VSX-421, Sony SS-FCR4000 5.0, Yamaha YST-FSW100.
(Panasonic TX-P50G30Y, Pioneer PDP-LX5090, Panasonic TX-P42ST60Y)

Offline David Mackenzie

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Re: 2013 Panasonic Plasma
« Reply #19 on: 01 March 2013, 03:06:23 AM »
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Regarding Game modes on plasmas, haven't the Panasonic PDP's had exactly the same amount of input-lag in both Game, True Cinema/THX and Professional picture modes, though..?  (at least since 2009/2010?)
Nope! The Game mode is faster and actually uses a slightly noisier drive mode.
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Offline FoxHounder

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Re: 2013 Panasonic Plasma
« Reply #20 on: 01 March 2013, 05:33:32 AM »
Regarding Game modes on plasmas, haven't the Panasonic PDP's had exactly the same amount of input-lag in both Game, True Cinema/THX and Professional picture modes, though..? ??? (at least since 2009/2010?)
I'd say, my 42S20 in True Cinema felt as responsive as in Game Mode. My friend's 50ST30 is pretty fast in True Cinema, too.
But starting with 50 series, input lag became more distincted. Now on 50ST50 I really feel that there is a difference between Game Mode and True Cinema. It looks like Game Mode is around 16 ms and True Cinema is around ~33 ms.
Panasonic didn't promise anything specific for gamers on 2013 series, but I hope that the new plasmas won't lag too much even with 4:4:4 (?) engaged.
Video: Panasonic TX-PR55VT60 + Pioneer BDP-140
Audio: Onkyo TX-NR626 + Boston Acoustics CS260 II 5.1

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Offline SETEM

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Re: 2013 Panasonic Plasma
« Reply #21 on: 01 March 2013, 09:22:37 AM »
Yep, I must have gotten things mixed up... I distinctly remembered reading that the picture mode made no difference in one of HDTVtest's reviews. And I did, but that was the in the review of the G20 :P
I only use Game mode in the daytime and for games where you need the extra responsiveness, though. It's safe to say the noisier drive mode is often noticeable (at least on the G30) :P

I haven't actually noticed any difference between Game and Professional modes yet, though... Now I'll have to check it out :lol:
Panasonic TX-P55VT60Y, PS4, PS3, X360, Wii, Pioneer VSX-421, Sony SS-FCR4000 5.0, Yamaha YST-FSW100.
(Panasonic TX-P50G30Y, Pioneer PDP-LX5090, Panasonic TX-P42ST60Y)

Offline SETEM

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Re: 2013 Panasonic Plasma
« Reply #22 on: 01 March 2013, 09:27:39 AM »
Panasonic didn't promise anything specific for gamers on 2013 series, but I hope that the new plasmas won't lag too much even with 4:4:4 (?) engaged.
I remember reading in a reply from David that 4:4:4 "cut out" som processing, and that in return you get better chroma sampling... Maybe this could actually reduce input lag? Correct me if I'm wrong :)
Panasonic TX-P55VT60Y, PS4, PS3, X360, Wii, Pioneer VSX-421, Sony SS-FCR4000 5.0, Yamaha YST-FSW100.
(Panasonic TX-P50G30Y, Pioneer PDP-LX5090, Panasonic TX-P42ST60Y)

Offline FoxHounder

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Re: 2013 Panasonic Plasma
« Reply #23 on: 01 March 2013, 10:05:29 AM »
I remember reading in a reply from David that 4:4:4 "cut out" som processing, and that in return you get better chroma sampling... Maybe this could actually reduce input lag? Correct me if I'm wrong :)
Yes, it's correct for ET60. It cuts some processing, but in Game Mode (where all processing is cut anyway) enabling 4:4:4 increases lag.
We still need to see how it's implemented on ST60 and other new plasmas. I think, it can be slightly tuned by firmware anyway.
Video: Panasonic TX-PR55VT60 + Pioneer BDP-140
Audio: Onkyo TX-NR626 + Boston Acoustics CS260 II 5.1

Offline FoxHounder

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Re: 2013 Panasonic Plasma
« Reply #24 on: 01 March 2013, 10:09:49 AM »
It is good in that now you will be able to use picture settings as you see fit, rather than having to put up with the very noisy and messed up gamma on the 2012 models game mode, but if you have to wade through the TV menu everytime you turn your console/PC on, then its going to be rather frustrating.
I could live with a noisier picture in favor of responsiveness. But I don't see any point in skewing gamma THAT much! They could really improve this.
The only way to at least tame gamma a little in Game Mode on 50-series is to set 2.4-2.6. But the huge non-linearity will still be there, at least average gamma is more adequate. It's far too low by default.
Video: Panasonic TX-PR55VT60 + Pioneer BDP-140
Audio: Onkyo TX-NR626 + Boston Acoustics CS260 II 5.1

Offline David Mackenzie

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Re: 2013 Panasonic Plasma
« Reply #25 on: 01 March 2013, 06:53:56 PM »
Quote
It is good in that now you will be able to use picture settings as you see fit, rather than having to put up with the very noisy and messed up gamma on the 2012 models game mode, but if you have to wade through the TV menu everytime you turn your console/PC on, then its going to be rather frustrating.
On the PDPs it might still have a noisier picture. That's partly to do with the faster panel driving, as far as I know.

There is actually an option in these that can automatically turn on Game mode if it detects a console. It didn't work with my Xbox 360 during testing, for reasons I'm not sure of.

In any case, if you want to replicate the old functionality, just set up True Cinema for movies and leave Custom mode with Game Mode enabled. (Assuming it's picture mode specific rather than input specific. I'll need to test.)
HDTVTest.co.uk Reviewer & US Correspondent
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Offline fahrenheit

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Re: 2013 Panasonic Plasma
« Reply #26 on: 01 March 2013, 10:53:52 PM »
On the PDPs it might still have a noisier picture. That's partly to do with the faster panel driving, as far as I know.

True. I guess we will see. The noise doesn't bother me all that much, but the skewed gamma certainly does.

Quote
There is actually an option in these that can automatically turn on Game mode if it detects a console. It didn't work with my Xbox 360 during testing, for reasons I'm not sure of.

That content specific setting? (can't recall how it was named) I couldn't get that to work either.
Apparently the US sets have a 'Graphics' mode that can be enabled in game mode and it defeats the skewed gamma. Thanks for leaving function out Panasonic! :chin:

Quote
In any case, if you want to replicate the old functionality, just set up True Cinema for movies and leave Custom mode with Game Mode enabled. (Assuming it's picture mode specific rather than input specific. I'll need to test.)

Currently running everything into my AVR with a single HDMI cable going to the GT50, so manually changing to Game mode is just an unavoidable hassle at this point. I may have to get a two way splitter and utilise one of the other inputs on the TV just for gaming and then I can also leave Game mode enabled for that input.

The worst thing at the moment is the times I forget. Will start watching a movie and think, 'what muppet mastered this terrible looki.... oh, Game modes still on...'.

Offline tele1962

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Re: 2013 Panasonic Plasma
« Reply #27 on: 02 March 2013, 01:30:50 PM »
David as you have first hand experience i am hearing all the time about differences between the NA & EU PDP's are the differences really that great or are the still comparable in most respects?

Offline David Mackenzie

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Re: 2013 Panasonic Plasma
« Reply #28 on: 02 March 2013, 04:59:46 PM »
For the 2012 models, they're not gigantic. The biggest difference was the better contrast on the US VT50.

They're the same panels with different menu designs and options. Most of the different controls on the US versions are ones we would turn off anyway.

I have a feeling that this year the US versions are going to be using (nearly) the same menus as over here though.
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Offline tele1962

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Re: 2013 Panasonic Plasma
« Reply #29 on: 02 March 2013, 05:04:34 PM »
So in most respects what goes in the US shootout applies here also. :)

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