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Panasonic ST60 Plasma TV.

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Offline panman40

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Re: Panasonic ST60 Plasma TV.
« Reply #30 on: 26 March 2014, 06:54:56 AM »

On the other hand... If they could make a decent locally dimmed 4k LEDLCD-TV with well-implemented dimming and a well done BFI mode :chin: I suppose that it wouldn't be the end of the world... I hope Panasonic keep pushing PQ forward even though their PDP's are no more, as the industry could really use that.

To be honest Tommy I think you need to live with an up to date LCD for a little while to make a few tweaks here  there, I'm becoming more and more impressed with my W905 as time is going on  ;). Motion in 2D for me is better than plasma, very fast paced scenes such as fighting etc were just a blurry mess on my plasmas yet my eyes can see what's going on with this LCD. I'm not expecting you to believe or trust what I'm saying  :lol: but I'm well pleased  :-* :o :clap: :) lol.
I believe you, m8 ;) ( :huh:) :lol: No, I really do :) Like I've mentioned, my friend who now has a 65" VT60 is more susceptible to DFC on 50 Hz stuff than me, and also he almost doesn't seem to understand what I'm talking about when I say that his 55" Samsung UEB7070 LED-TV has motion smearing. The only way he sort of got it was when I had to explain to him why his new PDP "stutters so much" - that it's because the source's frame rate is low. The reason he hasn't noticed it much before is obviously very probably because of his LED's 300 lines of motion resolution. He also has never had issues with viewing angles on his LED, although to me and other friends it had been very apparent.

Btw, that LED he has (he still keeps it in another room) has probably the best PQ I've seen from any edge-lit LED-TV. It is very good, except for those weaknesses. HDTVtest did a review of the 40" 7020 (basically the same as the 7070, IIRC) and it's unassisted mll was 0.04 cd/m2 - slightly lower than the 55W905 reviewed here. I've spent my fair share of time with that TV, but to me the contrast performance just doesn't do it... And I cannot get over the motion res :no:

My friend has no issues about his LED, though other than it being "too small", a bit of clouding in dark scenes, and that he wanted better black level. He still loves it, though.

So, what I'm saying is that people are different, and have different preferences and priorities. Most video enthusiasts I know of regard PDP as the best, but that doesn't mean that for other people LED's can't give a better compromise between PQ and the inevitable issues in the TV - or that some people's visual system is wired in such a way that LCDLED is perceived as clearer. That bit I might not have believed before, but after seeing my friend and understanding that "huh, he really doesn't notice it", I can't say I don't. I can absolutely understand that you are very pleased with the W905, and especially so after all the hassle you've had with Samsung plasma in the past and your intolerance to Panasonic DFC... And if you're perceiving the motion as better now... Then what's left to argue for PDP's superiority? Only the mll, but then the W905 is no worse in that regard than your D6900, so... :clap:

For me, however... PDP all they way, baby 8)
 :rofl:

 :clap:, the funny thing is I have less motion smearing or ( blur) on this W9 than I did on the sammy plasma, I know people will read that and laugh so go ahead  :P, I know what my eyes are seeing, on the Samsung very slow pans or slow movement was fine but anything a little faster and it was blurred, that's why I never understood the motion resoloution charts for plasma. I must admit I do miss static picture quality with faces, on the plasma they seemed as if they were real and in the room ! Where LCD is a little flatter and processed looking, if Samsung had made the F8500 plasma in 60" (well they do in the USA) I would have definately chosen that as my replacement tv, I miss the top notch 3D on my sammy but having said that there's some things like ( brightness pops ) I'm delighted to have gotten shot of  :o.

Next tv will be a 60" pled with ( optional) curve  ;D.
Sony KDL-55W905, Pana TX-L37LZD80, Panasonic DMP-BDT310, Pana DMP-BD60, Oppo BDP-103DMZ, Sky HD 1TB, Yamaha RXV 675, 7.1ch, 2x Kef Q300C, 4X Kef HTS3001SE Eggs,  Kef Q600C Centre, BK XXLS400 Sub, Harmony 900 & 650. Sennheiser RS160 Phones, iPad 4 64GB.

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Offline SETEM

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Re: Panasonic ST60 Plasma TV.
« Reply #31 on: 26 March 2014, 02:25:38 PM »
Mm - that's a tough one. I wouldn't cut my nose off to spite my face, and if there is a whole load of really good, hi-res 4K content, I'd need to get a 4K TV of some sort which would probably be LED LCD.

But, I don't think I could tolerate paying top dollar for black levels that poor. So, don't be so sure!
It's a good thing you live in Scotland then and you don't have to pay with dollars :P
I live in Scotland? ;) I'm not sure that's a country yet!
It says "Glasgow, UK" in your profile :P I'm guessing you're still over in the US of A? :) Been reading the News, including your "field report"... I'm eager to see what these new locally dimmed LEDLCD's can do, and how Samsungs improvements to motion res is going to pan out (hehe, got it? :huh:)... Not surprised Panasonic had that ZT60 running in "Low" mode, though. However, at closer viewing distances it yields incredibly solid dithering in dark scenes and it's still the benchmark for any TV's combined "mll+near black gradations" performance, except the KURO and OLED(?), so it's not entirely misrepresentative. Most people would probably opt for "Mid" mode after buying one, though, so...
Panasonic TX-P55VT60Y, PS4, PS3, X360, Wii, Pioneer VSX-421, Sony SS-FCR4000 5.0, Yamaha YST-FSW100.
(Panasonic TX-P50G30Y, Pioneer PDP-LX5090, Panasonic TX-P42ST60Y)

Offline JL_?

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Re: Panasonic ST60 Plasma TV.
« Reply #32 on: 27 March 2014, 10:37:42 AM »
the funny thing is I have less motion smearing or ( blur) on this W9 than I did on the sammy plasma,

Naturally... Now, turn Motionflow off...  ;D
Not what man knows, but what man feels concerns art. All else is science...
-Bernard Berenson, 1897-

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Offline FoxHounder

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Re: Panasonic ST60 Plasma TV.
« Reply #33 on: 27 March 2014, 11:18:25 AM »
Naturally... Now, turn Motionflow off...  ;D
I see what you did there. ;)
« Last Edit: 27 March 2014, 02:22:52 PM by FoxHounder »
Video: Panasonic TX-PR55VT60 + Pioneer BDP-140
Audio: Onkyo TX-NR626 + Boston Acoustics CS260 II 5.1

Offline panman40

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Re: Panasonic ST60 Plasma TV.
« Reply #34 on: 27 March 2014, 12:51:25 PM »
the funny thing is I have less motion smearing or ( blur) on this W9 than I did on the sammy plasma,

Naturally... Now, turn Motionflow off...  ;D
;D
 :P
Sony KDL-55W905, Pana TX-L37LZD80, Panasonic DMP-BDT310, Pana DMP-BD60, Oppo BDP-103DMZ, Sky HD 1TB, Yamaha RXV 675, 7.1ch, 2x Kef Q300C, 4X Kef HTS3001SE Eggs,  Kef Q600C Centre, BK XXLS400 Sub, Harmony 900 & 650. Sennheiser RS160 Phones, iPad 4 64GB.

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Offline tele1962

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Re: Panasonic ST60 Plasma TV.
« Reply #35 on: 05 April 2014, 05:19:47 PM »
My latest calibrated settings for my 55"ST60:

True Cinema
 Contrast 72
 Brightness +4
 Colour 50
 Sharpness 0

 Temp Warm
 IFC Min
 Panel Luminance Low
 Colour Gamut Normal

 WB
 RG -8
 GG 0
 BG -5
 RC 1
 GC 0
 BC 1
 More Detailed
 90 IRE
 RC 0
 GG 0
 BG -2

 30IRE
 RG 3
 GG 0
 BG -1

 10IRE
 RG -17
 GG 0
 BG -5


 Colour Management
 R Hue 0
 R Sat 1
 R Lum 0
 G Hue +15
 G Sat +7
 G Lum
 B Hue +4
 B Sat +13
 B Lum 0

 Gamma 2.4
 10IRE -48
 20 IRE -38
 30 IRE -27
 40 IRE -14
 50 IRE -3
 60 IRE 0
 70 IRE 0
 80 IRE 2
 90 IRE 2
 100 IRE 0


 Disclaimer:
 These settings are for my ST and might not be compatible with any other and indeed might make your PQ worse. If you want true accuracy without the hassle I would recommend a Professional Calibration

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Offline tele1962

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Re: Panasonic ST60 Plasma TV.
« Reply #36 on: 03 July 2014, 10:51:02 AM »
Just setting up for a 3D calibration. :)

Offline Vincent

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Re: Panasonic ST60 Plasma TV.
« Reply #37 on: 03 July 2014, 11:12:26 AM »
During the day?

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Vincent

Offline tele1962

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Re: Panasonic ST60 Plasma TV.
« Reply #38 on: 03 July 2014, 12:29:51 PM »
During the day?

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Vincent

Hi Vincent, I have blackout curtains and blinds which make it almost night time conditions. :)

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Offline Vincent

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Re: Panasonic ST60 Plasma TV.
« Reply #39 on: 03 July 2014, 03:00:31 PM »
What sort of luminance in cd/m2 are you getting through the glasses?

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Vincent

Offline tele1962

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Re: Panasonic ST60 Plasma TV.
« Reply #40 on: 03 July 2014, 04:38:47 PM »
What sort of luminance in cd/m2 are you getting through the glasses?

Warmest regards
Vincent

Vincent it was a very quick cal, just getting WB, Gamma looking better I didn't save my luminance reading but I will get a reading for you a little later this evening as the calibration went rather well. :)

PS
Had a look at the opening of Pacific Rim 3D, stunning. :clap:
« Last Edit: 03 July 2014, 04:44:53 PM by tele1962 »

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Offline tele1962

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Re: Panasonic ST60 Plasma TV.
« Reply #41 on: 03 July 2014, 07:06:10 PM »
Vincent I am getting 2.464 cd/m2 with panel luminance set to low measuring through the glasses using the CP sequential contrast pattern.

Just checked the Panel Luminance setting doesn't appear to do anything with 3D mode engaged. :chin:
« Last Edit: 03 July 2014, 07:30:10 PM by tele1962 »

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Offline Vincent

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Re: Panasonic ST60 Plasma TV.
« Reply #42 on: 03 July 2014, 08:35:27 PM »
That's very strange, it should do.

2 cd/m2 sounds very dim for 100% peak white windowed pattern?

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Vincent

Offline tele1962

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Re: Panasonic ST60 Plasma TV.
« Reply #43 on: 03 July 2014, 08:48:36 PM »
That's very strange, it should do.

2 cd/m2 sounds very dim for 100% peak white windowed pattern?

Warmest regards
Vincent

I thought it a little strange also, but setting brightness and contrast correctly with the specs on is what seems to be the only reading I can get and yet watching Pacific Rim it seemed bright enough?  ???

Offline Vincent

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Re: Panasonic ST60 Plasma TV.
« Reply #44 on: 03 July 2014, 09:01:26 PM »
If it's ok by eye then, that's fine. Might be just the meter giving erroneous readings through the shuttered lens + plasma sync.

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Vincent