Author Topic:

50'' Sony KDL-W828 or W705

 (Read 12855 times)

Offline confusius

  • Out Of The Box
  • *
  • Thank You
  • -Gave: 1
  • -Received: 0
  • Posts: 2
    • View Profile
50'' Sony KDL-W828 or W705
« on: 30 November 2014, 06:29:06 PM »

I've pretty much decided I'm going to buy a Sony 50''.
As far as I've gathered, W705 is the fastest thing around in terms of input lag. 50W828/829 is pretty much the same thing, only with a bit more bells and whistles.

It will replace an old Tatung 32''. I don't know its lag numbers, but it's never bothered me (unless I hook up the NES or something). I don't play online FPS on console, nor do I plan to start, but I like a good Street Fighter match.

705:
+ Best input lag available?
- No local shops carry it, has to be bought online

828:
+ Better (or so they say) motion clarity.
+ Is sold just a few blocks away
- Slightly slower

The dilemma is whether I'll notice the lag difference between the two, or if the picture quality increase makes the slightly slower 828 the better choice. I'm a gamer, but like movies too. 3D is IMO nothing but a party trick.

Both can be had for pretty much the same amount of money, so that's not important. The models are sold by different shops, so swapping one for the other if I regret the purchase is not really an option. My hope is to avoid any remorse.

Offline Vincent

  • Global Moderator
  • Calibrated
  • *****
  • Thank You
  • -Gave: 222
  • -Received: 370
  • Posts: 631
    • View Profile
Re: 50'' Sony KDL-W828 or W705
« Reply #1 on: 30 November 2014, 08:14:12 PM »
Hi

Welcome to the forum.

The difference in lag is negligible. I'd get the W829 if it was the same price for better motion technology.

Warmest regards
Vincent

These member(s) thanked your post:


Offline Xerox

  • Calibrated
  • *****
  • Thank You
  • -Gave: 50
  • -Received: 57
  • Posts: 725
    • View Profile
Re: 50'' Sony KDL-W828 or W705
« Reply #2 on: 11 December 2014, 03:10:09 PM »
I've pretty much decided I'm going to buy a Sony 50''.
As far as I've gathered, W705 is the fastest thing around in terms of input lag. 50W828/829 is pretty much the same thing, only with a bit more bells and whistles.

It will replace an old Tatung 32''. I don't know its lag numbers, but it's never bothered me (unless I hook up the NES or something). I don't play online FPS on console, nor do I plan to start, but I like a good Street Fighter match.

705:
+ Best input lag available?
- No local shops carry it, has to be bought online

828:
+ Better (or so they say) motion clarity.
+ Is sold just a few blocks away
- Slightly slower

The dilemma is whether I'll notice the lag difference between the two, or if the picture quality increase makes the slightly slower 828 the better choice. I'm a gamer, but like movies too. 3D is IMO nothing but a party trick.

Both can be had for pretty much the same amount of money, so that's not important. The models are sold by different shops, so swapping one for the other if I regret the purchase is not really an option. My hope is to avoid any remorse.

Next year models will merge into better ones.
Why hurry, buy 2015 model.

Offline DeWili

  • [Standard] Mode
  • ***
  • Thank You
  • -Gave: 0
  • -Received: 3
  • Posts: 29
    • View Profile
Re: 50'' Sony KDL-W828 or W705
« Reply #3 on: 19 December 2014, 06:52:42 AM »
Hi!

50" 828 is native 100Hz when 705B is native 50Hz. Xbox and Ps4 gives 60Hz, so with 705B you will not see all 60 pictures in second. TV game mode gives native Hz.

Offline Xerox

  • Calibrated
  • *****
  • Thank You
  • -Gave: 50
  • -Received: 57
  • Posts: 725
    • View Profile
Re: 50'' Sony KDL-W828 or W705
« Reply #4 on: 19 December 2014, 08:24:45 AM »
Hi!

50" 828 is native 100Hz when 705B is native 50Hz. Xbox and Ps4 gives 60Hz, so with 705B you will not see all 60 pictures in second. TV game mode gives native Hz.


All are 50Hz : http://forums.hdtvtest.co.uk/index.php?topic=9347.0

Offline DeWili

  • [Standard] Mode
  • ***
  • Thank You
  • -Gave: 0
  • -Received: 3
  • Posts: 29
    • View Profile
Re: 50'' Sony KDL-W828 or W705
« Reply #5 on: 19 December 2014, 07:17:21 PM »
Ok my mistake!

Offline theleta

  • Out Of The Box
  • *
  • Thank You
  • -Gave: 2
  • -Received: 4
  • Posts: 8
    • View Profile
Re: 50'' Sony KDL-W828 or W705
« Reply #6 on: 19 December 2014, 08:21:49 PM »
I am pretty sure both mount same panel Auptronics 8bit 120hz  6,5ms g to g, so image display is pretty the same, poor angled vision and undersatured  red/blu.
Poor chroma is not an issue if you dont have another tv in the room, but poor angle vision  can be a problem if you stay under 2mt from panel (corner bright red image became pink/magenta).
HDMI Input to 60hz both , but i think its possible force true 120hz input for both.
The only gaming difference is impulse mode (black frame insertion  pay 30 ms inputlag)available  in game mode for 828
I prefer 50w828b

OT they are not VESA mount compliant  but with an inexpensive screw kit available on internet you can IT!!
« Last Edit: 19 December 2014, 08:26:18 PM by theleta »

Offline confusius

  • Out Of The Box
  • *
  • Thank You
  • -Gave: 1
  • -Received: 0
  • Posts: 2
    • View Profile
Re: 50'' Sony KDL-W828 or W705
« Reply #7 on: 02 January 2015, 12:38:57 PM »
Thanks for the input, guys. I decided to take Vincent's advice, but stayed on the fence a couple of more weeks. Then the 50w828 appeared on a Christmas sale for the equivalent of 520, and I just managed to grab the last one. Very happy and impressed so far. Thought it was fast out of the box, but when I discovered the game mode I really got the meaning of low input lag.
Yeah, I could've waited for the '15 sets, but we don't know much about them yet, and if it turned out they were only marginally better yet 30% more expensive (which, let's face it, is very likely), I would not have been happy with having let this one go. Also, I needed a new TV fast because 32" is way too small for my new flat.
Thanks for helping me take the plunge. I don't think I'll be buying a new TV now until 4k OLED (or indeed the next thing) is within financial reach.
« Last Edit: 02 January 2015, 08:44:21 PM by confusius »

Offline theleta

  • Out Of The Box
  • *
  • Thank You
  • -Gave: 2
  • -Received: 4
  • Posts: 8
    • View Profile
Re: 50'' Sony KDL-W828 or W705
« Reply #8 on: 11 January 2015, 03:07:44 PM »
i am also very interested in this model due low lag and pc capability (i use them like monitor)but i am a bit disappointed  from red saturation .
On my serch on the web i found that samsung use the same AuOptronics panel on his mid range series maybe 6 series  but this do not suffer the same grade of undersatured color like sony did.
IS IT possible adjust sony  color gain via services menu(hidden menu)? Anyone have tried this option?too much  risky?
Dammned is a lot of  years that sony do not provide any color managment in their menu !

Offline Xerox

  • Calibrated
  • *****
  • Thank You
  • -Gave: 50
  • -Received: 57
  • Posts: 725
    • View Profile
Re: 50'' Sony KDL-W828 or W705
« Reply #9 on: 11 January 2015, 04:00:44 PM »
i am also very interested in this model due low lag and pc capability (i use them like monitor)but i am a bit disappointed  from red saturation .
On my serch on the web i found that samsung use the same AuOptronics panel on his mid range series maybe 6 series  but this do not suffer the same grade of undersatured color like sony did.
IS IT possible adjust sony  color gain via services menu(hidden menu)? Anyone have tried this option?too much  risky?
Dammned is a lot of  years that sony do not provide any color managment in their menu !

Wait for 2015 models. They use new panels, all of them.

These member(s) thanked your post:


Offline theleta

  • Out Of The Box
  • *
  • Thank You
  • -Gave: 2
  • -Received: 4
  • Posts: 8
    • View Profile
Re: 50'' Sony KDL-W828 or W705
« Reply #10 on: 12 January 2015, 11:37:49 AM »
thanks for the tip, I will follow your advice

Offline Xerox

  • Calibrated
  • *****
  • Thank You
  • -Gave: 50
  • -Received: 57
  • Posts: 725
    • View Profile
Re: 50'' Sony KDL-W828 or W705
« Reply #11 on: 12 January 2015, 11:52:39 AM »
thanks for the tip, I will follow your advice

The panels for 2014 models were mass produced around February 2014.
The panels for 2015 models are mass produced in February 2015 before or around the time of the European trade show.

Leftover panels from 2014 sometime go in R series of 2015, hence even the R series is 1080p. Input lag will most likely show which panels are new.

So for example AOU Optronics sells their old 2014 panels at a discount and Sony puts them in R series.
« Last Edit: 12 January 2015, 11:54:33 AM by Xerox »

Offline FoxHounder

  • Global Moderator
  • Calibrated
  • *****
  • Thank You
  • -Gave: 704
  • -Received: 985
  • Posts: 1643
    • View Profile
Re: 50'' Sony KDL-W828 or W705
« Reply #12 on: 12 January 2015, 12:57:36 PM »
Leftover panels from 2014 sometime go in R series of 2015, hence even the R series is 1080p. Input lag will most likely show which panels are new.
This is wrong. Input lag is actually dependent on processing hardware latency.
The panel response time is a whole another story. It's different values.
I wonder how can anyone make predictions based on this? Different lag = different panel, WTF? :huh:
Video: Panasonic TX-PR55VT60 + Pioneer BDP-140
Audio: Onkyo TX-NR626 + Boston Acoustics CS260 II 5.1

Offline Xerox

  • Calibrated
  • *****
  • Thank You
  • -Gave: 50
  • -Received: 57
  • Posts: 725
    • View Profile
Re: 50'' Sony KDL-W828 or W705
« Reply #13 on: 12 January 2015, 03:00:24 PM »
Leftover panels from 2014 sometime go in R series of 2015, hence even the R series is 1080p. Input lag will most likely show which panels are new.

This is wrong. Input lag is actually dependent on processing hardware latency.
The panel response time is a whole another story. It's different values.
I wonder how can anyone make predictions based on this? Different lag = different panel, WTF? :huh:


Better response time on same resolution on same 60Hz on same signal procesing always translates in lower input lag.

You can't make 2014 Sony input lag lower with the current panel it uses because artifacts and overshot would become visible. You need a new, better liquid crystal panel to support more aggressive overdrive [on response time] without the artifacts an overshoot to be visible.

Input lag = response time + signal processing.
The signal processing can't go below 0 ms.



Some monitors have 0 ms signal processing like : Dell U2414H / U3014 others below 1 ms like BenQ XL2720Z (0.3 ms) Dell P2414H ( 0.05 ms ) Dell P2714H (0.95 ms).

Where input lag is 8 ms (refresh rate + signal processing) or half frame lag, on 60Hz you can't discern it from 0 input lag CRT.
« Last Edit: 12 January 2015, 03:09:29 PM by Xerox »

Offline FoxHounder

  • Global Moderator
  • Calibrated
  • *****
  • Thank You
  • -Gave: 704
  • -Received: 985
  • Posts: 1643
    • View Profile
Re: 50'' Sony KDL-W828 or W705
« Reply #14 on: 12 January 2015, 03:06:46 PM »
Response time isn't a fixed value. Different transitions give different results, and with current LCDs you can get anything between 2ms...10ms (for example) on the same panel.
This value is pretty much pointless now, like over 9000 Hz and other 100000000:1.
LCDs didn't improve the real response time in last years, despite stating ridiculously low figures.
Anyway, measuring the input lag in whole processing+panel time is much more useful.
Panel response time is not an indicator that it's somehow "better" anymore.

Even 120 and 240Hz is achieved by "overlapping" the pixel state, without waiting for a full previous transition to be completed. It means LCD is driven maximum at ~4 ms time for 240Hz. And there's no guarantee all pixels will be switched in such short time.
There's no room for a serious technical improvement here, only marketing. Like having a "2 ms" panel over "4 ms" will give you a whole new experience... But it's still the good old blurry LCD at the end.
« Last Edit: 12 January 2015, 03:11:27 PM by FoxHounder »
Video: Panasonic TX-PR55VT60 + Pioneer BDP-140
Audio: Onkyo TX-NR626 + Boston Acoustics CS260 II 5.1