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SAMSUNG TV Line-up 2015

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Offline FoxHounder

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Re: SAMSUNG TV Line-up 2015
« Reply #15 on: 08 December 2014, 11:05:08 PM »

Wow Samsung releasing new PDP's I thought they were finished producing these?
I highly doubt they'll release any new plasmas. Unless they have huge stock of leftover panels from 2014.
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Offline Robert Zohn

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Re: SAMSUNG TV Line-up 2015
« Reply #16 on: 09 December 2014, 02:01:33 AM »
Not sure if I can like 1/2 of your post and not the second part, but that's my feelings.  I love PDP and want all of what you said in the second half of your post.

-Robert
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Offline David Mackenzie

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Re: SAMSUNG TV Line-up 2015
« Reply #17 on: 09 December 2014, 03:18:27 AM »
2020 can't be made without 10 bit
It could, it just wouldn't be advisable.

Quote from: Xerox
Samsung promised quantum dot TV that will reach rec 2020 in 2015
Source?
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Offline Xerox

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Re: SAMSUNG TV Line-up 2015
« Reply #18 on: 09 December 2014, 07:29:15 AM »
Not sure if I can like 1/2 of your post and not the second part, but that's my feelings.  I love PDP and want all of what you said in the second half of your post.

-Robert

Everybody wants. But PDP is gone.

Offline Xerox

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Re: SAMSUNG TV Line-up 2015
« Reply #19 on: 09 December 2014, 07:51:22 AM »
2020 can't be made without 10 bit

It could, it just wouldn't be advisable.

Quote from: Xerox
Samsung promised quantum dot TV that will reach rec 2020 in 2015

Source?



Source : http://forums.hdtvtest.co.uk/index.php?topic=9256.0

****************

More here : http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1828683

Quote
Higher bits certainly do help when converting between color gamuts, but it isn't the only reason that higher bits are useful.

With higher dynamic ranges, and wider gamuts, you absolutely do need more individual steps to encompass the larger ranges. This is actually a major issue in the standards that are being developed for UHD - one of the balancing acts is between the size of the gamut, the dynamic range of luminance, and the available bit depth.

Listen to Joe Kane discuss this very issue here ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ZqhA3iIHm4#t=12 from around 43:00 onwards, though I recommend the entire interview).

It's fairly obvious though - if you have a higher dynamic range (whether that range encompasses luminance or color saturation), you need more addressable points within that range to avoid banding artifacts. 256 gradations from black to white barely suffices with a dynamic range from ~0 nits to 100 nits. You think that when you move up to 600 nits you're not going to run into severe banding issues with only 256 addressable points?

Same thing with gamut area - larger gamuts means more saturated primaries, which means that if you only have 8 bits to traverse the space from fully desaturated (gray) to fully saturated, you're going to see a lot of banding. Joe Kane says that a minimum of 16 bits is needed to maintain adequate color resolution with Rec 2020's gamut, if not 24 bits.
« Last Edit: 09 December 2014, 07:58:18 AM by Xerox »

Offline hristoslav2

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Re: SAMSUNG TV Line-up 2015
« Reply #20 on: 09 December 2014, 03:41:03 PM »
Xerox
1. There is a problem with the imposition of HDR in LCD TVs.
- Decline contrast them ...
- Due to the increased number of LEDs has increased heat - it takes fans
- power consumption jumps threefold

I'll explain - only 5% of the backlight light it passes through the matrix. Figure it out, how bright the backlight should be to get the picture brightness of 4000 cd/m2, whatever proposal of Dolby Vision
http://www.dolby.com/us/en/technologies/dolby-vision.html

2. There is not a producer whose video panels to cover standard Rec2020! All panels are 8-bit color depth.
Mass in Hi-End models use RGB backlight and two companies planned use of quantum dots (probably will come back and forgotten feature Wide Gamut), in order to expand the artificial color space, which has its cons.
Do you know how to achieve 10 bits of LCD panel? How subpixels and how domains are needed to achieve 10 bits? I just want to warn you that the RGB model is wrong!!!!! RGB model is selected in the early 20th century by a handful of greedy now mounting and engineers who are looking for the most inexpensive option for color movies ...

I know - the latter probably sounds confusing ..How many of you can answer the question:  How are the basic colors?
 They are 7, not 3. Remember Isaac Newton's experiment with placing a beam of light through a glass prism and how color break white light. Diagrams of the color space that you've all seen - are maimed and wrong. Of them has coordinates basically only three colors (three more are only implied) and coordinates are needed for the seven primary colors - red, orange, yellow, green, blue, violet.


Left: Rec.709 range of colors - right: Rec.2020 range designed for Ultra HD TVs

Remains the main problem with the gradation of colors. Now enjoys signal of 6 bit color (1080p false 8 bits of color - 4: 2: 0 - 16-235.- Blu-Ray), but needed at least a minimum of 12 bit color.
How 100 pixels will draw a smooth gradient of 0-255?
If you are able to distinguish two adjacent gradient, for example 33 and 34, then 256 pixels will not manage to see a Smooth ... The smooth gradient arises itself in exceeding the threshold of visual perception, ~ 200ppi.
Therefore, for smooth gradations, his quality of color and resolution go hand in hand.
His quality should be done such that it covers the human range perception - 1: 40000 contrast. 16 bits of color think it will come, and the pixel density of the screen should be such that of "normal viewing distance" to get not less than 200ppi. This is somewhere to 8K screen if you compare with the screens in mobile phones ... so that no human eye could see neighboring gradients. 4K two meters as a whole will be enough to not see the pixel structure of the display. But where to get the screen capable otrisuva all 40,000 gradations of brightness ...

Current displays are RGB and 8 bits of color ... and can not readily reproduce correctly the color of human skin, because there are no orange, yellow and white subpixel.

For a display to reproduce colors correctly on the screen, it must support 16 bits per color and has pixels consisting of 8 subpixels (7 basic colors + white). And accordingly must receive such a signal - cameras should shoot in seven basic colors (16 bits per color), 100fps, and high light sensitivity.




The first single-celled organisms evolved visual pigment - rhodopsin by which to determine direction and intensity of light. Thus, setting the directions above and below the water while sailing. During the day, sank down to hide from UV rays at sunset pay up to take advantage of the sunlight necessary for photosynthesis.

The first mammals are seen in color, but before 230 million years everything changes because the dinosaurs that make mammals hide in burrows underground, thus lose some of their color vision. After the disappearance of the dinosaurs and out of the holes again over time restoration of the color vision.

Contrary to popular your pets, dogs and cats see in color - in blue and yellow. Something which is unknown to the creators of the first TV channel for dogs http://dogtv.com/

35 million years ago primates develop third photo receptor - red. This color them was necessary to feed to differ fresh new leaves on top of the trees - have a higher calorific value and a slight reddish tint are also more digestible than old leaves. With this new improvement in their vision seen and found easier ripe fruit.

Today most people have vision problems - color vision.
One in 10 men and one of every 200 women suffer some degree of color blindness. For men this is warranted by the small number of X chromosomes (male only one - XY) which is coded red. People had a stroke also lose their color vision.

The amount and ratio of photoreceptors in different individuals differ. This can be seen most clearly in the images of the retina. In some photoreceptors for green are greater in other more red. Generally the ratio is in the range 1:25:25 - blue-green-red. However, our brain has adapted, offsetting these differences and see so similar.

« Last Edit: 09 December 2014, 04:01:00 PM by hristoslav2 »

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Offline FoxHounder

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Re: SAMSUNG TV Line-up 2015
« Reply #21 on: 09 December 2014, 04:06:47 PM »
And I thought Rec.2020+10 bit+HDR was radical...
How many lives should I wait for 16-bit 8-colour presentation for consumer video sources?
Guys, let's be realistic, no matter how current systems are flawed, it's what we're gonna live with in close future.
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Offline hristoslav2

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Re: SAMSUNG TV Line-up 2015
« Reply #22 on: 09 December 2014, 04:16:07 PM »
Nothing prevents, asking picture close to reality. ::) I explained how this can be achieved, but because of the greed of producers and the market situation that will not happen. The reason is that such a TV would cost about 25,000 pounds.
Not to mention the amount of information that must be handled ...
8 bits per channel RGB = 24 bits total = 256 x 256 x 256 shades of blue, red and green = 16.7 million colors
10 bits per channel RGB = 30 bits total = 1024 x 1024 x 1024 shades of blue, red and green = 1070000000 colors
12 bits per channel RGB = 36 bits total = 4096x4096x4096 shades of blue, red and green colors = 68710000000
-
16 bits per channel  7 basic colors- => 128 bits total = 16394x16394x16394x16394x16394x16394x16394 shades of blue, red, green, orange,yelow,.... colors = ..............

Uncompressed video in 8k UHD 120 frames per second and 36-bit color requires each second transmission of 140 Gbit (7680x4320x120x36 = 143327232000) uncompressed data. Of course, the movies can be compressed, but we are talking about huge amounts of data.

HDR is incompatible with Oled TVs. The maximum brightness in them 110cd/m2...
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« Last Edit: 09 December 2014, 04:31:53 PM by hristoslav2 »

Offline Xerox

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Re: SAMSUNG TV Line-up 2015
« Reply #23 on: 09 December 2014, 04:34:47 PM »
1.

Vizio Reference panel is already 800 nits & if you couple that with 384 dimming zones, true 10 bit panel & quantum dot film for color you have a HDR display : http://www.vizio.com/r-series

Quote
Contrast
Beyond Compare.

Groundbreaking 800 nit Ultra-Bright Backlight delivers unprecedented luminance, enabling revolutionary High Dynamic Range (HDR) that delivers contrast with true-to-life intensity. The Full Array LED features 384 Active LED Zones™ with Active Pixel Tuning for pixel-precise contrast control to deliver the most vibrant whites and richest black levels.


Quote
Incredibly High
Dynamic Range.

The high dynamic range sets the VIZIO Reference Series apart from every other UHDTV. With enhanced dynamic reproduction, you’ll experience brighter brights, darker darks and richer colors. The 800 nit backlight delivers twice the brightness of regular LED-lit LCDs with 384-zone Full Array local dimming for a wider range of luminance.


http://www.cnet.com/news/behind-the-scenes-with-dolbys-new-hdr-tv-tech/

There is no decline in contrast (read below in blue)

Quote
Behind the scenes with Dolby's new HDR TV tech

At a special sneak preview, a few of us journo types got to see upcoming High Dynamic Range technology from Dolby. And it might just improve all TVs.

While the majority of the TV industry prattles on about higher and  higher resolutions , few talk about improving other, more important aspects of the TVs picture: contrast ratio and color.

Dolby, though best known for its audio technologies, has been doing a lot with video recently too. The latest development addresses dynamic range, or difference between light and dark, for televisions. The company says it wants to enhance not just contrast ratios, but the richness and realism of color as well.

Dolby won't be announcing the official name of this tech until CES next month, but for now let's call it the Dolby High-Dynamic Range Television System because it shares a lot of the same characteristics of HDR imaging. Here's why it's cool (potentially).

The multiple levels of picture quality

There are three aspects to the picture that Dolby hopes to improve: Brightness, contrast, and color. In reality, all three of these things are related.

Increasing the brightness of a TV, in itself, isn't difficult. You just use more LEDs, in the case of LCD TVs , and run them brighter. Easy. This does nothing for contrast, however. With an LCD, contrast is largely independent from brightness because making the picture brighter also raises the black level. With plasma and OLED , additional brightness requires more power, but eventually you'll run into the limitations of the technology (phosphors, power supplies, etc.).

Regardless of the technology, Dolby's interest in a 20,000 nit television (roughly 5,837 foot-lamberts, or 500-1000 times brighter than your current TV) itself seems foolish for an indoor TV. After all, current TVs  are often too bright , and can  cause eyestrain .

Dolby's not after brightness for brightness' sake, however. Instead, it wants the highlights to be really bright, while the rest of the image is not, for a greater contrast ratio. Parts of the image might be 20,000 nits, but the rest is dimmer. Even in a dark room, this produces a more realistic image. Bright areas pop in a lifelike way. Dolby's prototype (discussed below) uses a local-dimming LED backlight to create this incredible contrast, but a technology  OLED  is able to achieve something fairly close on its own.


The last aspect is color. Right now, the modern TV system doesn't have rich or bright colors, not compared with film or real life. With extra brightness potential, and a larger color gamut, and greater bit depth, richer looking images are possible, with brighter colors than what's possible now. Check out  Ultra HD 4K and beyond: Rec. 2020 glimpses the future of TVs  for more on better, more realistic color.

 The prototype TV

To showcase its tech, Dolby built a prototype television. Based on its broadcast monitor, it's essentially a local-dimming backlight LCD on steroids. Where the $40,000 broadcast monitor has 4,500 individually addressable red, green, and blue LEDs, this prototype has 18,000 , and each one is addressable. To put that in perspective, top-of-the-line LED LCDs on the market now have a few hundred, and they are definitely not individually addressable.

The RGB backlight and color filters on the LCD panel are capable of a wider color gamut than current TVs, the digital cinema color space, to be specific.



About color gamut :

Quote
On May 22, 2014, Nanosys announced that using a quantum dot enhancement film (QDEF) a current LCD TV was modified so that it could cover 91% of the Rec. 2020 color space. Nanosys engineers believe that with improved LCD color filters it is possible to make a LCD that covers 97% of the Rec. 2020 color space.


First display coming to market now : http://www.nanosysinc.com/dot-color/2014/12/3/designing-a-disruptive-display-for-the-asus-zenbook-nx500

2.
All 2015 panels with quantum dot will be 10 bit.
They won't use RBG they use quantum dots to provide the color + a color filter.

Isaac Newton & Einstein are two empirical idiots. There are imaginary colors too but like all scientists they remove negative, imaginary, zero and infinity numbers from existence although their mathematical calculations are based on negative real numbers and negative imaginary numbers.

Let's not go into back to dinosaurs and things like that.

10 bit is maximum what you are going to find in a commercial display.

In 2015 Rec 2020 color space + 10 bit 100% guaranteed.

12 bit, 14 bit & 16 bit = extremely expensive so it is never coming to market.

Color is produced mentally so they don't know how dogs really see. It's just marketing.

OLED is not the future. Quantum Dot Display is that removes completely the LCD LED module and uses these crystals : http://forums.hdtvtest.co.uk/index.php?topic=9301.0

Quote
World’s most efficient light emitting technology

Tiny man made crystals that are 10,000 times narrower than a human hair, Quantum Dots are the world’s most efficient light emitting material. They also emit very pure colors and can do so at nearly any wavelength in the visible spectrum.




« Last Edit: 09 December 2014, 04:39:30 PM by Xerox »

Offline David Mackenzie

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Re: SAMSUNG TV Line-up 2015
« Reply #24 on: 09 December 2014, 10:35:16 PM »
Quote from: xerox
Source : http://forums.hdtvtest.co.uk/index.php?topic=9256.0

I don't see the source, sorry. I see FlatPanelsHD reporting that QD displays are coming. I don't see anything to suggest they'll reach Rec 2020.
HDTVTest.co.uk Reviewer & US Correspondent
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Offline Xerox

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Re: SAMSUNG TV Line-up 2015
« Reply #25 on: 09 December 2014, 10:43:20 PM »
Quote from: xerox
Source : http://forums.hdtvtest.co.uk/index.php?topic=9256.0

I don't see the source, sorry. I see FlatPanelsHD reporting that QD displays are coming. I don't see anything to suggest they'll reach Rec 2020.


Nanosys a small company did it on may 22, 2014.

Quote
On May 22, 2014, Nanosys announced that using a quantum dot enhancement film (QDEF) a current LCD TV was modified so that it could cover 91% of the Rec. 2020 color space. Nanosys engineers believe that with improved LCD color filters it is possible to make a LCD that covers 97% of the Rec. 2020 color space.


And the first consumer device using it is ready : http://www.nanosysinc.com/dot-color/2014/12/3/designing-a-disruptive-display-for-the-asus-zenbook-nx500

***

Can you imagine Samsung that is building a QD factory with Nanoco in Korea not able to reproduce such basic results considering the experts and money they have ?

Read between the lines and use your intuition in the future to figure it out yourself.
« Last Edit: 09 December 2014, 10:45:36 PM by Xerox »

Offline David Mackenzie

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Re: SAMSUNG TV Line-up 2015
« Reply #26 on: 10 December 2014, 12:57:12 AM »
Oh Xerox. Reading between the lines is not the same as something being true!

We'll all find out at CES time, anyway.
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Offline Xerox

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Re: SAMSUNG TV Line-up 2015
« Reply #27 on: 10 December 2014, 07:24:07 AM »
Oh Xerox. Reading between the lines is not the same as something being true!

We'll all find out at CES time, anyway.

Of course.
Hopefully Samsung starts using real FALD on 7 series and above. (at least)

Offline Xerox

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Re: SAMSUNG TV Line-up 2015
« Reply #28 on: 10 December 2014, 04:59:58 PM »
Oh Xerox. Reading between the lines is not the same as something being true!

We'll all find out at CES time, anyway.


This gives a glimpse of the future ( QLED direction instead of OLED ) : http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/10/30/us-samsung-elec-lg-elec-television-idUSKBN0IJ2LV20141030

Quote
How a technology will match with market conditions, when a technology will emerge as the main market segment is the most critical consideration," Sung said. "We'll respond aggressively after identifying such a market opportunity."


Quote
"In theory, OLED should become cheaper than LCD once production yields get better because OLED doesn't need a backlight, but at this point both the scale and production yield remain low," said CIMB analyst Lee Do-hoon.


Neither QLED display requires a backlight.

Quote
Samsung could be more aggressive than LG in pushing quantum dot as Korea's No.1 consumer electronics maker appears less committed to a particular technology, analysts said. LG, on the other hand, risks undermining its OLED push.


Quote
"If LG focuses on quantum dot, it'd be basically the same as signaling that it will be difficult for OLED to go mainstream in the near term," said CIMB's Lee.


As 1080p prices drop Samsung 2015 6 series & 7 series will need something to differentiate themselves from the 2014 lineup.

The analysts there are exaggerating things like :

Quote
The resulting lower prices could help the technology catch on far quicker. One industry analyst estimated a 55-inch quantum dot TV could be priced 30 to 35 percent more than a current LCD TV, while an OLED TV could be 5 times more expensive. LG recently launched a 65-inch ultra-high definition OLED TV for 12 million won ($11,350) in its home market of South Korea.


It won't cost that much. They will simply replace current prices for 1080p & 4K sets.

Quote
Researcher DisplaySearch forecasts 1.95 million quantum dot TV shipments next year, for just 0.8 percent of the market, growing to 25.5 million by 2020. IHS Technology sees OLED TV shipments at 7.8 million units by 2019 from 600,000 in 2015.


Samsung is betting on 4K & Quantum dot. So except 5 series maybe, the 6,7,8 series will use quantum dot film.

CES will reveal all very soon. Probably some leaks in the coming days / weeks.
« Last Edit: 10 December 2014, 05:03:23 PM by Xerox »

Offline Xerox

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Re: SAMSUNG TV Line-up 2015
« Reply #29 on: 11 December 2014, 05:00:58 PM »
Samsung: We will show a Tizen Smart TV at CES 2015
http://www.flatpanelshd.com/news.php?subaction=showfull&id=1418297197