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Test if the TVs are capable of 4:4:4 from all sources on their own.

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Offline Xerox

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Test if the TVs are capable of 4:4:4 from all sources on their own.

BluRay content like movies, on bluray disks or on USB sticks or via HDMI use 4:4:4 ?
What about digital streaming like netflix ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chroma_subsampling#mediaviewer/File:Colorcomp.jpg

Digital cinematography systems that are capable of recording full resolution color data (4:4:4) or raw sensor data.

Can the TVs you review are able to display the information in 4:4:4 ?
« Last Edit: 11 January 2015, 11:48:37 PM by Xerox »

Offline Vincent

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Re: Test if the TVs are capable of 4:4:4 from all sources on their own.
« Reply #1 on: 11 January 2015, 10:27:49 PM »
We are already testing 4:4:4 reproduction from PC source in all our reviews - it's the last line on the Benchmark Test Results table.

Warmest regards
Vincent

Offline Xerox

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Re: Test if the TVs are capable of 4:4:4 from all sources on their own.
« Reply #2 on: 12 January 2015, 12:00:40 AM »
So connecting the PC to the TV and setting the TV in a way so that the TV becomes the computer monitor it will display 4:4:4.

But what if you put a BluRay Disk with 4:4:4 or a memory stick with a movie in 4:4:4 or with a picture in 4:4:4.

Quote
Chroma subsampling - It is used in many video encoding schemes both analog and digital and also in JPEG encoding.

Will it actually play them in 4:4:4 or only if you set the TV to PC mode ? [and wouldn't setting it to PC mode and using a video from a memory stick ruin the content ?]

Offline David Mackenzie

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Re: Test if the TVs are capable of 4:4:4 from all sources on their own.
« Reply #3 on: 12 January 2015, 01:17:39 AM »
Quote
But what if you put a BluRay Disk with 4:4:4
Blu-ray Disc supports 4:2:0 maximum - the same as all other consumer video sources except computers. Therefore it is impossible to use a BD to test for 4:2:0 unless you're looking at the chroma resolution of the menu graphics (on some players).
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Offline Xerox

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Re: Test if the TVs are capable of 4:4:4 from all sources on their own.
« Reply #4 on: 12 January 2015, 11:38:04 AM »
Quote
But what if you put a BluRay Disk with 4:4:4
Blu-ray Disc supports 4:2:0 maximum - the same as all other consumer video sources except computers. Therefore it is impossible to use a BD to test for 4:2:0 unless you're looking at the chroma resolution of the menu graphics (on some players).

BD to test for 4:4:4 you meant ?

OK, so BluRay players only play 4:2:0 for now. I understand this and it will probably change with new BluRay standard this year.

But can you simply put in a USB Memory Stick some content like a video/film and a picture like JPG OR PNG that are in 4:4:4 and see if the TV shows them in actual 4:4:4 ?

This is an important thing at the moment since BluRay disks even if they have 4:4:4 video or picture on them the BluRay players won't display it [although i heard some players upscale it from 4:2:0 to 4:4:4 but this is useless since it doesn't add any extra real color information.]

Offline FoxHounder

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Re: Test if the TVs are capable of 4:4:4 from all sources on their own.
« Reply #5 on: 12 January 2015, 12:48:44 PM »
OK, so BluRay players only play 4:2:0 for now. I understand this and it will probably change with new BluRay standard this year.

But can you simply put in a USB Memory Stick some content like a video/film and a picture like JPG OR PNG that are in 4:4:4 and see if the TV shows them in actual 4:4:4 ?

This is an important thing at the moment since BluRay disks even if they have 4:4:4 video or picture on them the BluRay players won't display it [although i heard some players upscale it from 4:2:0 to 4:4:4 but this is useless since it doesn't add any extra real color information.]
Actually, you got it wrong. It's the other way around: usually Blu-Ray players are able to output YCbCr 4:4:4.
The problem is, there is no consumer video in such format. Not on Blu-Ray, not on cable/satellite feeds or internet.
Even professional video often uses 4:2:2 for montage: it already saves a bunch of space and bandwidth. Then it's trasferred to consumer in 4:2:0.
Full chroma 4:4:4 is not always viable even in studio environment. Why should 4:4:4 suddenly be adopted anywhere except computer graphics?
« Last Edit: 12 January 2015, 04:16:20 PM by FoxHounder »
Video: Panasonic TX-PR55VT60 + Pioneer BDP-140
Audio: Onkyo TX-NR626 + Boston Acoustics CS260 II 5.1

Offline David Mackenzie

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Re: Test if the TVs are capable of 4:4:4 from all sources on their own.
« Reply #6 on: 12 January 2015, 03:41:47 PM »
Quote
This is an important thing at the moment since BluRay disks even if they have 4:4:4 video or picture on them
Not possible, unless you are talking about computer files on BD-ROM discs. See my earlier post.
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Offline Xerox

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Re: Test if the TVs are capable of 4:4:4 from all sources on their own.
« Reply #7 on: 12 January 2015, 04:15:48 PM »
Quote
This is an important thing at the moment since BluRay disks even if they have 4:4:4 video or picture on them
Not possible, unless you are talking about computer files on BD-ROM discs. See my earlier post.

The question is can you get a USB memory stick and put a video with 4:4:4 on it and a JPG in 4:4:4 and see if the TV shows them both in 4:4:4 without PC mode ?

Offline David Mackenzie

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Re: Test if the TVs are capable of 4:4:4 from all sources on their own.
« Reply #8 on: 12 January 2015, 06:40:22 PM »
Not normally, no.
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Offline Xerox

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Re: Test if the TVs are capable of 4:4:4 from all sources on their own.
« Reply #9 on: 13 January 2015, 07:35:01 PM »
Not normally, no.


Go here :


Click download video in hd720p.

The video is a quick test of his new GH4 after converting 4k 8bit to 1080p 10bit 4:4:4

If not here a 4:4:4 [HD 1080p (1920x1080 / 36MB] :


Put them on a USB stick and test please. It should show if the TVs are capable of 4:4:4 in normal movie mode. ( since PC mode disables some stuff to reduce input lag )

Offline SETEM

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Re: Test if the TVs are capable of 4:4:4 from all sources on their own.
« Reply #10 on: 13 January 2015, 10:12:36 PM »
Lol, you can still use any viewing mode when connected to a PC; No need for any other testing method until other media delivery systems start utilising 4:4:4... Which seems unlikely at the moment :P
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(Panasonic TX-P50G30Y, Pioneer PDP-LX5090, Panasonic TX-P42ST60Y)

Offline Xerox

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Re: Test if the TVs are capable of 4:4:4 from all sources on their own.
« Reply #11 on: 14 January 2015, 10:06:45 AM »
Lol, you can still use any viewing mode when connected to a PC; No need for any other testing method until other media delivery systems start utilising 4:4:4... Which seems unlikely at the moment :P

I said not PC mode are you "blind" !
USB stick can use any delivery system [format] a camera produces including 4:4:4. but is the TV capable ?

Waiting for reviewers answer. I will try to find some JPG in 4:4:4 too since video & picture may be different on normal TV mode.
« Last Edit: 14 January 2015, 10:10:03 AM by Xerox »

Offline David Mackenzie

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Re: Test if the TVs are capable of 4:4:4 from all sources on their own.
« Reply #12 on: 14 January 2015, 03:40:17 PM »
Xerox, what point are you trying to make by linking to a video that was shot at 10bit 4:4:4?
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Offline SETEM

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Re: Test if the TVs are capable of 4:4:4 from all sources on their own.
« Reply #13 on: 14 January 2015, 06:52:40 PM »
Lol, you can still use any viewing mode when connected to a PC; No need for any other testing method until other media delivery systems start utilising 4:4:4... Which seems unlikely at the moment :P

I said not PC mode are you "blind" !
USB stick can use any delivery system [format] a camera produces including 4:4:4. but is the TV capable ?

Waiting for reviewers answer. I will try to find some JPG in 4:4:4 too since video & picture may be different on normal TV mode.

Put them on a USB stick and test please. It should show if the TVs are capable of 4:4:4 in normal movie mode. ( since PC mode disables some stuff to reduce input lag )
Yeah, I know... You are saying to test 4:4:4 output from something else than a PC (a BD player), so you can test 4:4:4 while the TV is in [Normal] or [Cinema] etc. mode instead of [PC] mode. And I'm saying: LoL, what device is outputting the 4:4:4 video has no effect on what viewing mode the TV can be in - You can connect a PC to the TV, output YCbPr/RGB 4:4:4, and have the TV operating in whatever viewing mode you want (not just PC mode). Since you can use a PC to output the signals, there is no need to start downloading anything onto a USB stick and start fiddling to get some other device (like a BD-player) to output it.

Get the point?
Panasonic TX-P55VT60Y, PS4, PS3, X360, Wii, Pioneer VSX-421, Sony SS-FCR4000 5.0, Yamaha YST-FSW100.
(Panasonic TX-P50G30Y, Pioneer PDP-LX5090, Panasonic TX-P42ST60Y)

Offline Xerox

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Re: Test if the TVs are capable of 4:4:4 from all sources on their own.
« Reply #14 on: 14 January 2015, 08:58:26 PM »
Xerox, what point are you trying to make by linking to a video that was shot at 10bit 4:4:4?

The first one is : converted 4k 8bit to 1080p 10bit 4:4:4 so the 10 bit is actually false since it adds nothing.

The second one is 4:4:4 no idea about 8 or 10 bit. So it may be 8 bit. The point is to find a 4:4:4 8bit video and a 4:4:4 JPG 8 bit image and put them on a USB stick and test if the TV is able to play them as 4:4:4. [without the need of a PC]

Because let's say you have JPG images and films shot by yourself in 4:4:4 8 bit and you need a TV that is capable of showing that without a PC [just using the files on a USB stick]. Since BluRay doesn't support 4:4:4 i need to know if the TV is capable of displaying 4:4:4 8 bit without a PC.