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How to check running hours (MRT) with H-series?

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Offline Xerox

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Re: How to check running hours (MRT) with H-series?
« Reply #15 on: 04 February 2015, 07:31:41 PM »

http://www.tlvexp.ca/2013/09/field-view-dreams-matter-hosed/

David or Vincent, any experience of that?
Is it really true that distance affects to results and if so, what is correct distance for i1 Display Pro, contact only?

I have to try that, understand that it change when measure non-uniform panel but if case is also with plasma then donīt know...maby I should ask that from X-Rite  ???


Yes it does obviously. Don't put it near the screen as it will ignore ambient light or the lack of light. Ideally you need to calibrate from the point of view of the client.

Why not 6 million areas?
A Full HD 1080p television has roughly 6 million subpixels, and calibrating them in groups would surely result in severe PQ loss.


This is really stupid pig here we talking about.

You need 9 zones and make an average between them when you calibrate just like in uniformity tests.

Brightness


or color


How could you not realize this is the best way to calibrate by now.
« Last Edit: 04 February 2015, 07:37:54 PM by Xerox »

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Offline Make73

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Re: How to check running hours (MRT) with H-series?
« Reply #16 on: 13 February 2015, 04:58:18 PM »
Don't put it near the screen as it will ignore ambient light or the lack of light. Ideally you need to calibrate from the point of view of the client

Xerox, David or Vincent...if you have to calibrate like Xerox says, how about reflections and different light conditions.
Cloudy, sunny, electric light, backlight, those all affect to calibration right?
Whatīs wrong with calibrating at dark meter contact at panel and after that you just make fine tuning with backlight for daylight?
Do I get wrong grayscale, gamma etc. ?
Never dare to ask, so now I asked  :-[

Offline SETEM

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Re: How to check running hours (MRT) with H-series?
« Reply #17 on: 13 February 2015, 06:19:10 PM »
Don't put it near the screen as it will ignore ambient light or the lack of light. Ideally you need to calibrate from the point of view of the client

Xerox, David or Vincent...if you have to calibrate like Xerox says, how about reflections and different light conditions.
Cloudy, sunny, electric light, backlight, those all affect to calibration right?
Whatīs wrong with calibrating at dark meter contact at panel and after that you just make fine tuning with backlight for daylight?
Do I get wrong grayscale, gamma etc. ?
Never dare to ask, so now I asked  :-[
Y.E.S. :) Some calibrators do non-contact from viewing position or whatever, IIRC, but I think they do contact calibration in the dark here at HDTVtest which means that the calibration won't be affected by the "current" ambient conditions.

Think about it, if you calibrate a display with "non-contact" method, and you happen to have a cool, blueish light in the room and white walls, this could definitely affect the readings. In the same way, if the Sun is out and you have yellow walls, your readings would probably suggest that the TV's images are somewhat too yellow (if the display is actually already close enough to being accurate, that is). So when calibrating by "non-contact" method, you will need to take ambient conditions into consideration beyond simply asking yourself "how bright do I want this mode?"...

Correct me if I'm wrong, anyone..? :P  :)
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Offline Make73

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Re: How to check running hours (MRT) with H-series?
« Reply #18 on: 13 February 2015, 06:55:35 PM »
Made some test:
-contact mode calibration
-1m away from panel
-2m away from panel
-3m away from panel
-3m away from panel and all room lights on which could affect reflections and more light to panel (I have white walls, brown laminate at floor and pretty warm lights ~2500K, behind TV is 6500K led backlights)

I donīt see any reason to make some special calibration, just adjusting luminance and maby gamma for night and day usage.

You can download hcfr measures from here:
http://1drv.ms/174bQjL

i1D(3)Pro FOV is 7 degrees so I think measuring area from three meters is something like 55cm  :chin:

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Offline SETEM

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Re: How to check running hours (MRT) with H-series?
« Reply #19 on: 14 February 2015, 08:17:16 PM »
Hmmm... It looks as though your settings for "contact" and "3m away" ended up exactly the same..? Either there is something wrong or these meters are not as accurate as I had thought? (Perhaps the meter can "lock" onto the type of light coming from the TV, then, since it may have some characteristic(s) which differs from lamp lighting (pulsing/refresh rate maybe)?)

??? Strange, since from a physics-point of view, I'm quite sure there will be interference between light waves from basically all sources in the room (at basically every point in the room :P) to a certain degree

???

i1D(3)Pro FOV is 7 degrees so I think measuring area from three meters is something like 55cm  :chin:
How did you work that out? :)
If the area is circular, then Area=pi*radius*radius
And radius would be found by Tan(0.5*FOVdegrees)=r/x [where x is distance from meter to screen]...
So, r=x*Tan(0.5*FOVdegrees)=3m*Tan(0.5*7degrees)=3m*Tan(3.5degrees), so that r=0.183m

and then A=3.14*0.183m*0.183m=0.1052m2=1052cm2

Or did I muck it up? :P
« Last Edit: 16 February 2015, 03:38:09 PM by SETEM »
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Offline Make73

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Re: How to check running hours (MRT) with H-series?
« Reply #20 on: 15 February 2015, 10:37:50 AM »
http://www.spectracal.com/Documents/Viewing%20Angle%20Article.pdf

As I know C6 and i1DPro is same kind of meter.

Hmmm... It looks as though your settings for "contact" and "3m away" ended up exactly the same..?


Thereīs only one calibration, contact at center. Others are just measurings (grayscale, colors and color checker), forget those comments/settings.
« Last Edit: 15 February 2015, 10:40:02 AM by Make73 »

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Offline SETEM

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Re: How to check running hours (MRT) with H-series?
« Reply #21 on: 16 February 2015, 03:36:02 PM »
http://www.spectracal.com/Documents/Viewing%20Angle%20Article.pdf

As I know C6 and i1DPro is same kind of meter.

Hmmm... It looks as though your settings for "contact" and "3m away" ended up exactly the same..?


Thereīs only one calibration, contact at center. Others are just measurings (grayscale, colors and color checker), forget those comments/settings.
Yep, they use basically the same formula in that pdf document, except for that they don't calculate the actual area, but rather the diameter of the circular measuring area on the screen. I calculated the radius (which is half of the diameter, as accounted for in their formula) since that's what is used for calculating the area :)

(Where did you get 7 degrees from, though? Isn't your (max.) FOV closer to 8 degrees according to that document?)

Regarding the measurements, I don't have the correct software to open those files, so I just opened them in Windows Notepad! :P So I just assumed that the settings at the end of each file were the calibrated settings for each case... Could you maybe take a screenshot of some measurements from the "contact" and "3m away" files? If there are differences that is? :)
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Offline Make73

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Re: How to check running hours (MRT) with H-series?
« Reply #22 on: 16 February 2015, 04:11:13 PM »
Got 7 degrees from here:
http://www.lightillusion.com/i1_display_pro.html

If you have MS Windows, you can download free hcfr from here:
http://sourceforge.net/projects/hcfr/files/Windows/
3.1.8 is latest release
Changelog:
http://sourceforge.net/p/hcfr/wiki/Changelog/

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Offline SETEM

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Re: How to check running hours (MRT) with H-series?
« Reply #23 on: 16 February 2015, 10:55:57 PM »
Ah, ok. Well, then, if your viewing angle is 7 degrees, then for your circular measuring area "projected" onto the TV from 3m away:
  • Radius=18.3 cm
  • Diameter=36.6 cm
  • Area=0.1052m2=1052cm2
;)

Thanks, I downloaded HCFR and had a look at your files. I'm no expert, but those measurements didn't look hugely different to me... The measurements from "3meters" versus "contact" seemed to indicated that:
  • gamma was a little lower ("brighter") for "3meters", up to around 70IRE
  • gamma tracked a little more evenly for "contact"
  • there was a bit too much blue from 0IRE up to around 60IRE for "3meters"
  • the dE for RGB levels (Greyscale?) was roughly about half for "contact" compared to "3meters", except for at around 60IRE where the opposite was true.

Overall I'd say the measurements from having the meter in contact mode seemed to be closer to reference, and these measurements do seem to indicate that room lighting and meter positioning does have some effect on the measurements... I'd trust the measurements from contact mode and just go with that, personally, unless I was advised otherwise.

I think I have a decent grasp of what the different types of measurements mean and how can affect picture quality, but I am absolutely no expert and I have no real world experience with actually taking "measurements-->making changes-->seeing how big the effects are". So, I'm not sure how big a difference it would make for you to calibrate from 3 meters away v.s. on contact, just going by these measured differences, although I can't imagine there would be a huge real-world difference - your dE's are pretty low across the board in either case ;D

Would be interesting to hear what David, Vincent, FoxHounder, tele1962, panman40... (Someone with actual experience!) had to say about it ;)
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Offline Make73

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Re: How to check running hours (MRT) with H-series?
« Reply #24 on: 23 February 2015, 06:20:51 AM »
Would be interesting to hear what David, Vincent, FoxHounder, tele1962, panman40... (Someone with actual experience!) had to say about it ;)

Yes it really would!

Tried calibrate from ANSI position 16 (bottom right corner), results are different but I think not better.
I donīt know how to calculate optimal measure position or settings which equal dEīs.
(MLL difference is because raised contrast to max and lowered backlight by one)

Quote
Samsung UE75H6475 calibration check ANSI 16-point
(calibrated at position16, measured 16 points)

dE
position16
gray scale average 0.48 max 1.27 colors average 0.93 max 2.09 White 90 cd/m2 MLL 0.024 cd/m2

C gray scale average 1.80 max 3.96 colors average 1.22 max 2.32 White 123 cd/m2 MLL 0.033 cd/m2
1 gray scale average 2.68 max 4.44 colors average 1.47 max 2.73 White 86 cd/m2 MLL 0.021 cd/m2
2 gray scale average 0.61 max 1.32 colors average 1.07 max 2.27 White 96 cd/m2 MLL 0.026 cd/m2
3 gray scale average 1.00 max 2.55 colors average 1.22 max 2.39 White 97 cd/m2 MLL 0.026 cd/m2
4 gray scale average 1.42 max 2.53 colors average 1.23 max 2.83 White 92 cd/m2 MLL 0.025 cd/m2
5 gray scale average 2.26 max 4.00 colors average 1.21 max 2.22 White 105 cd/m2 MLL 0.026 cd/m2
6 gray scale average 2.44 max 4.73 colors average 1.39 max 2.19 White 112 cd/m2 MLL 0.033 cd/m2
7 gray scale average 2.70 max 5.59 colors average 1.49 max 2.44 White 114 cd/m2 MLL 0.030 cd/m2
8 gray scale average 0.98 max 2.07 colors average 1.07 max 2.49 White 106 cd/m2 MLL 0.025 cd/m2
9 gray scale average 1.36 max 2.23 colors average 0.94 max 1.89 White 102 cd/m2 MLL 0.049 cd/m2
10 gray scale average 4.07 max 7.53 colors average 1.74 max 3.51 White 108 cd/m2 MLL 0.027 cd/m2
11 gray scale average 3.92 max 6.94 colors average 1.58 max 3.16 White 112 cd/m2 MLL 0.030 cd/m2
12 gray scale average 0.67 max 1.75 colors average 1.04 max 2.16 White 103 cd/m2 MLL 0.026 cd/m2
13 gray scale average 1.93 max 3.53 colors average 1.06 max 2.21 White 88 cd/m2 MLL 0.023 cd/m2
14 gray scale average 3.13 max 4.34 colors average 1.46 max 2.74 White 92 cd/m2 MLL 0.029 cd/m2
15 gray scale average 2.86 max 4.12 colors average 1.37 max 2.48 White 98 cd/m2 MLL 0.027 cd/m2

TOTAL AVERAGE: gray scale average 2.02 max 3.70 colors average 1.26 max 2.73 white 101 cd/m2 MLL 0.028 cd/m2

Quote
Samsung UE75H6475 calibration check ANSI 16-point
(calibrated at center, measured 16 points)

dE
center
gray scale average 0.49 max 1.08 colors average 0.88 max 2.18 White 120 cd/m2 MLL 0.038 cd/m2

1 gray scale average 4.52 max 7.26 colors average 1.82 max 2.57 White 88 cd/m2 MLL 0.024 cd/m2
2 gray scale average 1.79 max 2.94 colors average 1.82 max 2.57 White 97 cd/m2 MLL 0.033 cd/m2
3 gray scale average 0.97 max 1.83 colors average 1.01 max 2.13 White 99 cd/m2 MLL 0.030 cd/m2
4 gray scale average 3.29 max 4.92 colors average 1.56 max 2.69 White 94 cd/m2 MLL 0.026 cd/m2
5 gray scale average 3.90 max 6.53 colors average 1.51 max 2.36 White 105 cd/m2 MLL 0.027 cd/m2
6 gray scale average 0.84 max 1.54 colors average 1.07 max 1.94 White 113 cd/m2 MLL 0.042 cd/m2
7 gray scale average 1.02 max 2.27 colors average 1.10 max 2.24 White 114 cd/m2 MLL 0.032 cd/m2
8 gray scale average 2.65 max 4.32 colors average 1.34 max 2.17 White 105 cd/m2 MLL 0.028 cd/m2
9 gray scale average 3.14 max 5.25 colors average 1.25 max 1.88 White 102 cd/m2 MLL 0.052 cd/m2
10 gray scale average 2.31 max 3.82 colors average 1.37 max 2.09 White 108 cd/m2 MLL 0.030 cd/m2
11 gray scale average 2.11 max 3.31 colors average 1.22 max 2.19 White 113 cd/m2 MLL 0.032 cd/m2
12 gray scale average 1.62 max 2.96 colors average 1.07 max 2.08 White 103 cd/m2 MLL 0.028 cd/m2
13 gray scale average 3.64 max 6.91 colors average 1.47 max 2.64 White 87 cd/m2 MLL 0.028 cd/m2
14 gray scale average 1.52 max 2.20 colors average 1.16 max 2.03 White 93 cd/m2 MLL 0.027 cd/m2
15 gray scale average 1.09 max 2.12 colors average 1.09 max 2.34 White 97 cd/m2 MLL 0.028 cd/m2
16 gray scale average 1.88 max 3.09 colors average 1.07 max 2.08 White 92 cd/m2 MLL 0.026 cd/m2

TOTAL AVERAGE: gray scale average 2.16 max 3.67 colors average 1.28 max 2.24 white 102 cd/m2 MLL 0.031 cd/m2
« Last Edit: 23 February 2015, 06:23:52 AM by Make73 »